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Muslim Spain and European Culture Moors, as the Spaniards call the Muslims, populated Spain for nearly 700 years. As you'll see, it was their civilization that enlightened Europe and brought it out of the dark ages to usher in the renaissance. Many of their cultural and intellectual influences still live with us today.

So the muslims brought culture to the europeans, who then brought it to the states. Very interesting website this. An eyeopener for all muslim haters.
From Nony

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NeoCon Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 7:50 PM :
The message was "convert or die". If you didn't convert your head was cut off.


Surfer Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 8:18 PM :
Convert or die? Wow, sounds a lot like the witch trials.


PoPo Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 9:02 PM :
Only differance there surfer is that the witch trials only lasted a few hundred years. This "enlightened muslim way" STILL preaches the beheading of non-believers NOW.

Some enlightened culture they are! They still whipe their arses with their bare left hand, as they have for "thousands of years", and my how they can be so RACIST as to think only muslims deserve to live, and that non-muslims are the enemy infidel worthy of death. Some advanced culture. Im so sure they could actualy claim to be the mother of the modern civilised European world. When any one looks at the "middle east" or the mecca of Islam countries, one would have to be BLIND to not see the "CIVIL" unrest, constant civil wars, ethnic clensing, and brutal shedding of blood that rages through out these countries since its birth and still just as fluent and widespread today. If any country has been crippled by GREED its Iraq, Afghanistan, and so forth. Iraq especialy has a huge wealth of oil, yet out of greed on its brutal dictators part, greed and backwards bruts have kept its economy in the third world level. Nothing has changed there. They still murder their oun, they murder their nighbors, and they keep it going. This is an old way. Its their reputation to be hard edged cut throught vilians who live on the rocks of war and constant fighting. And it started with out Americas help or provocation thousands of years ago. They (ISLAMIC EXTREMIST TERRORISTS) have no one to blame but them selves.

Impish pimples like the extreme left can try their very best to spin the blame on this anchient practice of brutal cave man like slaughter, but the facts are shown on TV every single day around the world of the wonderful fruits of the muslim way of challenging an opposing beliefe with NOTHING but blood shed, even if it is their own people. HOW THE FROOP CAN ANY ONE SAY MUSLIM CULTURE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ADVANCEMENT IN CIVILIZATION, IS BEOND AUDACIOUS, ITS ASSinine!!

Yet in its honest and clear form its very evident that most people do not adhere to this theology. If they are honest.



Nony Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 02:15 AM :
Hey PoPo, guess who invented the abc!, and how about the numerals we use for our target calculations?

My my, guess I hit a raw nerve here!


Surfer Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 02:52 AM :
PoPo, do a little research. The cultures that existed (and still do to some degree) in the Iraqi area were very much responsible for a great many things, from religious influences to technological (technical definition, not electronics). But this does include record keeping, legal aspects, etc.


NeoCon Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 3:08 PM :
Islam had a good start but has been in decline for 500 years. Only intellectual Liberals want to save it.



Surfer Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 7:30 PM :
Neo, Just admit it: you're a racist bastard who hates anything that doesn't have white skin and worships the torture of a man on a cross (who didn't have white skin)


PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 3:11 PM :
Nony it seems you tend to flatter your self. Either you love the sound of your own words or you realy are a Liberal.

Not only did you not hit a raw nerve, but you failed to hit anything.

Are you assuming to imply that Muslims invented our abc's? LMAO surely you are not that insane? Or are you...

To say that the middle eastern cultures invented many of the basics for our modern technology is one thing, but to claim that Islam founded some how our civilised culture today? LOL Real arrogant...LOL stupid even.

And Baldic consider that when news or opinions are argued here, the proper resources for these arguments would in fact be "links" to websites. That is if we are arguing the material of the web itself. HOWEVER when reviewing or conversing on the maters of world history, "links" to other web sites, especialy ones obviously writen by or in favor of one race is not were any one who can think clearly will go to in order to come to some conclusion. If I want "proof" of, or material resource for such study it will be at a respectable Library. Not some website, which one person, family or group contributed to. Thats just rediculous to even think you can get a well rounded body of evidence to argue on any topic so broad as this.

Islam is not even as old as Christianity, even though some claim it is some how. SO how can a culture who is not 2000 years old claim responsibility for the birth of "civility"? Thats just ignorant and wishful. Whoever would wish for the worlds most brutal and canabolistic group to get credit for civility is dumb.


Alice Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 3:14 PM :
Well, I can't say that muslims invented the alphabet, but semitic peoples certainly had a hand in developing written language.

As for maths ... well, the word Algebra itself has a muslim root: The Arabic word for restoration, al-jabru, is the root of the word algebra.

Check out this link: http://www.algebra.com/algebra/about/history/



Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 3:57 PM :
PoPop, you stupid fuck, go to a library and start looking up the evolution of the alphabet. You just can't stand it that you owe something to someone you irrationally and blindingly hate, all because you were told to hate them and followed like a little thoughtless monkey.


Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 4:29 PM :
Thank you Someone, now, add in the Sumerian language...


Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 4:36 PM :
Nevermind, those two in concert answer the question nicely, you just have to connect a few dots, even though it about walks you through it...



PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:05 PM :
See there Alice. You may be trying to say what hot head over there is attempting. LOL

Its reasonably easy to argue that point Alice. Common knowledge points to evidence as you just said, semitic....But that includes the middle east alltogether doesnt it? And would that not agree to the fact that that area is the oldest populated on the planet? Thats an clearly obvious point.

Now that statement that Algebra has a "islamic" roots, is misrepresented Alice. Arabic is not the same as Muslim. Arabic is a very old language. Much older than Islam. Infact again I would like to point out here that use of numeral or letter tablets are anchient, where as Islam or the Muslim way is relatively new, as in no more than 2k years old. So ... use of numbers and letters being used by Arabic speaking peoples first? Quites possible. But is it born from Islam just because it is Arabic? Not nessesarily!! Am I wrong? Did Muhamod write the Kuran making up words and letter as he went along? DUHHH!! NO! He was writing in an already established alphabetic system long in use by the time his "Gin" (Spirits/Demons) were telling him what to write. Its not something Islam made up Surfer. And for you to act like a child and cuss me out for pointing that out, you are plainly wrong.

What the heck does 1400BC have to do with Islam is beyond me. Thats like trying to say that Christians built Noahs Ark. Noahs decendants were many peoples, Hebrew included, but how far back does one Religion take credit Surfer?

Give me a break!! I think you fell of your wagon dude.

The Pheonicians the Greeks, the Egyptions, The Cannanites, the Kurds, the whole middle east area has widley used and improved the used of letters and numbers and its developement. BUT HOW DO YOU COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT ISLAM BIRTHED CIVILIZATION OUT OF THAT!?!?!?! Islam is not as old as the creators of the alphabet you crazed lunatic! LOL

Allow me to bring this topic back into context for you Surfer, since you strayed into Alphabets.

This is about the claim that, "... the muslims brought culture to the europeans, who then brought it to the states." Thats so asinine to even print! You could get away with claiming that Islam perfected the family traditions of brotherhood, and loyalty, but to claim that europeans were given culture by Islam? Give me a break. I cant believe even a liberal would fall for that one.

Alice tell me you dont realy think that "it was their civilization that enlightened Europe and brought it out of the dark ages to usher in the renaissance." Do you?


Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:18 PM :
Pardon me, but I didn't post those links. The concept of alphabets etc comes in to proving a point.

I think you're confusing civilization with influences. Big difference.


Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:38 PM :
The impact of the Arab Culture on European Renaissance - http://www.islamset.com/islam/culture/impact_of.html

Here's a snippet:

The Arab-Islamic culture played its leading part in the best way possible in building world scientific renaissance. Arab and Moslem scholars translated Greek heritage and other kinds of scientific heritage which had preceded them in history into the Arabic language which was the language of science and culture. Arab and Moslem scholars left their mark on the European Renaissance.

Good enough for you? Or are ya gonna continue being arrogant?



PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:40 PM :
quotes that are plainly wrong, or at the very very least, "pure opinions":

"... it (Islam) also exhibited incredible tolerance..."

"...it was their (Islam) civilization that enlightened Europe and brought it out of the dark ages to usher in the renaissance."

""The inhabitants threw all their refuse into the drains in the center of the narrow streets. The stench must have been overwhelming, though it appears to have gone virtually unnoticed. Mixed with excrement and urine would be the soiled reeds and straw used to cover the dirt floors."

I dont care who wrote this how ever long ago, there is no way that all of europeans did this. Its true that many poor countries had no structure and system in place to bury dead in the tightly packed cities. But all of europe is not represented by this statement as seen by one mane in a very minrity setting.

"...Students from France and England traveled there to sit at the feet of Muslim, Christian and Jewish scholars, to learn philosophy, science and medicine..."

No way can you convince me that a muslim run country allowed other religions to teach let alone live. Every muslim "Run" country outlaws the teaching of Christianity and ALWAYS has. So this statement is twisted severely.

"thousands of Jews and Christians lived in peace and harmony with their Muslim overlords."

no way...

" The aristocracy promoted ... and encouraged Jews in banking."

Sure whatever. No land ruled by Muslims allows teaching worship of another God. This writer is wrong.

"There was little or no Muslim prostelyting. Instead, non-believers simply paid an extra tax!" Yeah that tax was their HEAD!

"As the Moors built mini-alliances and fought amongst themselves..." this maight be true...

This quote is far more concevable than all you have said so far Surfer. You could have used this quote to save your pathetic argument but you failed...

" These works (Libraries/Literature) alone however, didn't kindle the fire that would lead to the renaissance. They added to Europe's knowledge, but much of it was unappreciated without a change in the way Europeans viewed the world."

Here is a point you overlooked Surfer:

"Remember, Medieval Europe was superstitious and irrational. "What caused the intellectual bombshell to explode, however, was the philosophy that came with (the books). This included Aristotle's system of nature and the logic of argument."

Was Aristotle a Muslim? Was he?

Surfer you could have said that "...the philosophy that came with (the books)...caused the intellectual bombshell to explode" That is a fair argument to make.

Its like saying "Free speak brought democracy to life", but you hung on one argument that Islam is responsible for the Alphabet, or Culture or Civilization... LOL Sure Surfer, whatever!!

"Sadly, all Jews and Muslims that would not abandon their beliefs were either killed or exiled (Grolier, History of Spain). Thus ended an epoch of tolerance..." Ok lets talk about that.

It was wrong for "Christians" in that crusade to do the above said, right? Duhhh!!

So why is it ok for Muslims to do it today? They are proud to kill Christians and Jews. They preach hate and death to the Isreali people in their Mosks DAILY!!! So whats the differance there Surfer. Ganna whip out some spin and twist that truth? Is that a double standard in your face Surfer???

All this argument is based seemingly on a place called Cordova. Its said to have been the largest collection of literature ever amassed even to this day. Right? Well This website even claims that in its prime hours, Cordova was a collection of Christians Jews, and Muslims. So how does Islam take credit? No point to argue any more Surfer!

Surfer you ran away with the argument that Muslims/Islam created culture in Europe. That they are responsible for civilization in modern Earth.

Well I would have stuck with the final statement at the bottom of this website and been able to retain most of my honor at least:

"Much of what we are today can find it's roots in the once great Moorish culture of Spain."

But again, keep in mind...

1) This is writen by one man who gathered historical writings and came to his conclusions under his interpretations...

2) The Moors were not any nicer about fighting wars or taking over Christian, or Jewish populated areas than the other way around...

3) Cordova was a shortlived experience, and maybe even experiment, that soon went amuck...just like many cultures do....

4) This information is like much information, its subject to critisism as well as its own corrections seeing as the writers are human as the playeres in the stories, we all make mistakes, and therefor you have to take EVERYTHING with a grain of salt so to speak....

Ganna say I did not read this Sky?


Jihad Jerry Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:42 PM :
That's why so many of us are civil engineers today. You arrogant americans can't build fast enough to keep up with our destruction.


PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:42 PM :
Surfer why are you quoting this website and or book as though its fool proof? The only true account of where historical credit goes is to have lived through all these time periods, and read all the librarys of the world. Then hang your mouth on a statement to be complete truth.

You brought it up pal... dont be mad at me...



PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:43 PM :
Thank you for your honesty Jerry, see you in the desert...

You see where your alliances lie Surfer, CW, Sky, Nony, Kerry, Moore?


PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:45 PM :
Hey Jerry if you guys are so advanced why does the majority of your people in the middle east live with out the simplest things like plumbing, heating, and why do so many not have basic education? Why is that region in constant unrest and turmoil, when its no where near Isreal and you all blame the Islamic problems on Isreal?


PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:46 PM :
Im out for the night. You guys argue with each other till I return.....



Patriot Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:47 PM :
Good post PoPo. I think Mr. Surfer is cranky from the flu today, but I'm not sure.

How's the wife doing? You guys know what you're having yet? Is it a lil' PoPo or a lil' Mrs. PoPo?


Alice Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 9:53 PM :
PoPo, Islamic historians and scientists preserved greek, egyptian and roman books and teachings while the europeans were burning and burying them. They really helped us out in the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries ... as to what they've been doing sense then ... well ...


PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 10:24 PM :
Alice, Muslims today burn Bibles whats your point? You can not take a period of time "out of context" and build a foundation of apreciation for muslims out of a period of time in history. Right?

Dont be so mad at me Surfer, its scares me....LOL

Uh... Surfer I think its you thats bothered there bud. Im not influenced at all like you say. LOL but you might want to chill out man, sounds like your blood pressure maight be going up.

Look surfer Im not saying Islam did not influence Art, Literature, math, grammer, or culture, but So did Jews, Greeks, Italians, Indians, Africans......ect. So have they all. Its a global comunity and thats expected. No one should say that Europe was in darkness until Islam came to set them free...Thats ignorant dude for you to assume. Dont think for a second that any one in their right mind thinks that. Its ok to argue and state that any given country/culture/religion has "INFLUENCED" our world. Duhhhh, they all have in their own ways when they were each at their peek of power and control. All "ideas" had their time in widespread reign at one point or another. Thats the basic story of world history Surfer. Nothing wrong with that.

But No one Religion/Culture/Country is the one to get credit for the "modern advances" our civilized world enjoys today. No matter what you, or your articles and their "subjective" authors says changes that.

I read your posts and I just feel sorry for you. You just seem to be trapped in bitterness. You must surely take me to be your enemy, the way you get so defensive. Medicate your self and lets talk about it with out you getting so irrational over dissagreements.



PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 10:31 PM :
Right Alice, " They really helped us out in the 14th, 15th, and 16th centuries ... as to what they've been doing sense then ... well ..."

Thats my point, if I take the muslim religion and box it up into what its been up to for the last few hundred years.... to other sects and tribes, and to other religions like Christianity, I.E. murders and rapes and other tortures, then it would be wrong and unfair. In fact it would be partial and biased to be exact. You see and are represented by the end as well as the whole story, not just a selected few years of whatever is chosen. Just as Germany should not be only remembered by what its achievments were in the 30's and 40's. Its got more to tell than just those periods of time. Just as this world has had many contributing heros to civilization and modern advancements than just Arabic or Anglo-Saxon. Jeez man I just think Surfer is worked up and its a shame....


Surfer Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 01:35 AM :
"To say that the middle eastern cultures invented many of the basics for our modern technology is one thing, but to claim that Islam founded some how our civilised culture today? "

"HOW THE FROOP CAN ANY ONE SAY MUSLIM CULTURE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ADVANCEMENT IN CIVILIZATION, IS BEOND AUDACIOUS, ITS ASSinine!!"

Dictionary.com provides the follow definitions for foundation:

the fundamental assumptions from which something is begun or developed or calculated or explained

the act of starting something for the first time; introducing something new;

It also give the following definition for "responsible":

Being a source or cause.

Next time, why don't you watch what you say instead of blaming someone for misinterpreting what you say or mean. If you don't like people attacking you for what you say, then say what you mean and stand by it. Let me elaborate:

"but to claim that Islam founded some how our civilised culture today?"

foundation: the act of starting something for the first time; introducing something new;

They most certainly did introduce numerous things that no one else on the entire planet introduced. I've already provided information on this, I'm not posting it again.

"HOW THE FROOP CAN ANY ONE SAY MUSLIM CULTURE IS RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY ADVANCEMENT IN CIVILIZATION"

Any? I suppose "any" is a matter of opinion or perhaps is subjective? If they've introduced one single idea that advanced someone's bank account, if they've introduced one single idea that helped someone accomplish something, then I'd say that they were responsible for "any" advancement. But, again, I've posted information on this and I'm not relisting it. You want proof, a search engine can be found with a couple keystrokes.

So you say subjective? Yeah, sure:

"Of, relating to, or designating a symptom or condition perceived by the patient and not by the examiner." I'd say the people who posted that information are alot closer to examiner than you are, considering they have the ability to get closer to the source than you can ever dream. Most especially since this is what they do for a living.... how about you? I suppose it's just easier to claim something is subjective simply because you don't agree with it.

Perhaps, perhaps you should start researching something along the lines of How Islam Did NOT Influence European Cultures.


Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 02:30 AM :
Sufer, PoPo is from Yugoslavian decent 1st generation! He is proabaly Serb... they hate arabs and muslims with a vengeance. thats the root of todays problem in the region. If his parents had not come to the US he probably would have been rooting for Slobodan Milosevic.



Surfer Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 02:37 AM :
Okay, I can't think of anything nice to say, and with good reason, so I'm going away for a while.


PoPo Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 3:57 PM :
Nony if any one tells you that you a good judge of charracter, just smile and walk away. Hes not your friend...

LOL Geez you dems are getting worse, bitter to denial, back to bitter, than hearing voices, now very confused... LOL

You just keep talking Nony, think whatever theme you wish. You are just making me look better, and your self much worse. If only you had a clue...

Humor me some more...please


PoPo Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:01 PM :
Oh yeah. I realise this is old material for me, but I've made some observations in your post Nony.

Its funny how when you have run out of material or anything of substance in rebutle torwards my points, you revert to you classic level of inmaturity and through silly little personal remarks in attempt to hurt my feelings or insult me. LOL Very transparrant and dumb.



Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:19 PM :
Basicaly everybody on this board has gone out of their way to explain something to you, and all we get in return is rambling posts about what? hot air? And still you don't get it? So that leaves me only one course: looking at your background, since you are completely incapable of saying one just even just an little bitty good thing about the arabs or muslims, wich means your hatred against them must be cultural. Forgive me if I am wrong, but guess i'm right. Actually I only posted that little tidbit about Milosevic to see if i could jolt something in your brain. Sometimes we hide the obvious from ourselves. So did it work?

As a an ex-cabbie I got pretty damn good judge of caracter, thank you, is the only worhtwhile thing I got out of that job. Sadly enough it does not work well over the web.


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:21 PM :
How are you doing Nony?


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:24 PM :
I am doing fairly well ... bought a new car ...



Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:24 PM :
Very sleepy, but not feeling 100%, winterblues or something... and trying to educate PoPo getting very tiresome!


Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:25 PM :
Moving, new car... you always do these big things in the same month?


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:25 PM :
Well, lemme see ... are you in the same timezone as France? Must be nearly midnight ..



Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:26 PM :
Well, old car was on it's last legs a bit ... transmission was going ... we didn't really have much choice ..


Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:28 PM :
Golly, I ain't going to that thread, takes forever to load... Cat borders can be cute! We have some here absolutely adorable!


Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:31 PM :
Alice! how can you... France is in the same timezone as ME! not the other way around. :) Yup is 23:29 here

Should shut down and go clean litterboxes.

To bad about the added expense for the car. Those things cost a lot of money and basically sit around an do nothing most of the time... can't be without one however.



Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:31 PM :
Anywho .. It's a Chrysler PT Cruiser (control your laughter). Not a bad car. It's not a Renault 406 (don't sell those here:( ), but it's get's us where we need to go.

Renault should sell here ... I drove a Renault 406 from just outside London to the Isle of Skye on 2 tanks of petrol ... amazing .. must have been about 75 miles to the gallon.


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:32 PM :
Nony, forgive my faux pas :)


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:33 PM :
Yeah, we'd been without a car payment for about a year .. that was great. Oh well, we manage just fine.



Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:35 PM :
That will be a Peugeot 406 Alice! Great cars that. Renaults are cool also. I have one of those landrover defenders 110, and the wife has a Renault Twingo. Now that is a cute little car!

Chrysler PT Cruiser, will come in handy during the move! Lots of room in them. They are very popular here on the old continent.


Golly Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:36 PM :
Huh, what thread?


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:37 PM :
Not as cute as the Ford Ka ... I was desperate for one of those in England ... Soooo Cute!

One not about the Renault .. it ran on gazole, so I guess that accounts for the mileage.



Golly Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:39 PM :
They say a "man's car" is just really and extension of his penis. I drive a Suburban.


Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:39 PM :
The state department one Golly, Patriot posted all those names in there... have to wait "forever' here. (I'm a bit further away from the server than you are!)


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:40 PM :
Argh .. I kept typing it, didn't I ... must have renault on the brain. If Darren were here he'd be laughing at me ... Peugeot .. argh!



Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:40 PM :
Ford Ka... shudder, big bum car that is... Like the look in front, but that butt..


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:41 PM :
Well, yeah ... but still cute.

I drove a Citroen in England as well. Only care I've ever been in with a hydraulic suspension. Weird.


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:43 PM :
Made me feel like one of those Mexicans in California, you know who they raise and lower there cars ... make them jump about.



Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:43 PM :
Golly, my car was purchased to not be an extension of the penis! The Defender is a bloody tractor, but at least no more speading tickets like the BMW.

Alice, practically everybody here has diesel engines, mainly for frugality purpose... at close to 1 euro a liter, it sure counts.


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:45 PM :
Oh believe me, I know it's practical. I wish I could get a decent diesel here.

BTW, my mom used to drive a Miata ... she called it her "pussymobile". Mom is so adorable.


Golly Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:45 PM :
Hum, The defender? That's shaped like a tuna can.



Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:48 PM :
Love citroen, used to have a DS21... when I was young. Could barely afford the petrol. Would buy one now but the wife gets seasick just looking at them. She realy can't stand that hydrolic suspension. Cool cars those. Well they used to be sold in the US peugeot citroen and renault in the 70s, but they sold them with 1.4 liter motors, and could not compete with the 4 liter monster engines put in detroit steel that was twice the size on top of that. And in the States size matters! Just ask Golly


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:49 PM :
Yeah, I know that size matters here. I've never seen as many Hummer trucks as I've seen here ... a place that's flat as a pancake with no snow ... it's silly.


Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:51 PM :
A gardenshed Golly, built like one also, and it leaks at the roof and the clutch pedal when it rains... paid bloody good money for it also. But it has "character" LOL Goes at least 85 Mph on a good day! fun in the mud however!



Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:52 PM :
Knew a couple people in England with Landrovers .. all very posh people.


Golly Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:53 PM :
Alice said "Hummer" whooo-haaa!!!!!


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:54 PM :
For those who want to know, today is my smoking quit day. Tomorrow will be my first day without cigarettes in 10 years.



Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:55 PM :
Oh whoop-a-dee-doo Golly. I'm sure getting a hummer is a lot cooler than some chick saying it.


Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:57 PM :
That must have been landrover discovery of a range rover then Alice, the defender is the civilian version of the UK army truck. (they don't sell them in the states because no airbags etc.)


Golly Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:58 PM :
Yea, good point. But saying it is still really cool. As far as tobacco, chewed for 15 years of my life. Had a very close freind drop dead from a heart attack. I quit, cold turkey. The 26th of this month will be 8 months.



Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:58 PM :
Must have been. They were really swish .. leather and super stereos and all that.


Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:59 PM :
Golly is so easily pleased! Well dear people I'm off to bed, is saturday here already!

Congrats on the 10th aniversary of quiting!... My fifth 2 months ago.


Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 5:00 PM :
Well, my GP got me really nervous about smoking and taking The Pill. Blood clots and strokes and all that. Besides, I've always know it was poison .. just takes the right motivation I suppose. Darren and I are quitting together, which is helpful. We can give each other support and whatnot.



Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 5:01 PM :
Goodnight Nony ...

It's going to be my first day tomorrow ... been smoking for ten years ..


Nony Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 5:05 PM :
Link to landrover UK site: Landrover defender Pure utilitarian vehicle, design not changed since 1947! So I know it will stay up to date for a long time. (no stereo Alice, actually need to wear earplugs when going on highway at "top" speed... too much rattle and shake going on.

Golly Congrats to you too for stopping cold turkey!

Now I'm really off, hear cats complaining about dirty litter boxes!


Golly Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 5:06 PM :
Seriously, good luck. Be strong. Generally, two quitting at once is much more difficult than one. Sorry to say that but, thought you should know.



PoPo Wrote the following on 02/25/2005 11:31 AM :
Alice here is a tip. If your husband smokes and will still be smoking infront of you, you will hard pressed to quit. Hate to be negative, but if you both can agree to quit, your effort will last longer.

Oh and Nony, being a ex-cab driver doesnt make you anything special. Especialy a good judge of anything, but miles and adresses. And your problem is that you feel it to be your job to educate people who dont agree with you. That makes you as ignorant as Sky, to think you have been given such a roll, and also to think there is anything needed on my part to be learned merely for dissagreeing with you. Slacker, you need a nice hot cup of "reality". Drink up!


Nony Wrote the following on 02/25/2005 2:01 PM :
Thank you PoPo to be cited in the same sentence as Sky and called equally ignorant, I know no higher praise!

For the rest, typical answer of the truly ignorant, I am sure the man in the White House is ever so proud of you for taking such a stand on free information!


PoPo Wrote the following on 03/02/2005 01:31 AM :
More spin. Not too bad Nony. And flattery is cheap these days, it still doesnt buy loyalty.



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