NeoCon Wrote the following on 02/12/2005 7:28 PM : This was just 5 years after the Iranian hostage crisies. Iran was considered the bigger threat at the time
PoPo Wrote the following on 02/12/2005 9:39 PM : Alright whoever posted that can keep posting all the other diplomats and poloticians who shook hands with a whorld enemy like Sadam. Come on now, Im sure there are many many others who were documented on video and pictures both Democrates and Republicans shaking hands with those who later turned out to be scum bags.
Funny how when you hate a group so bad you will dig and dig and dig and wont stop looking till something bad or something that can be seen as bad is found and then its a trump card magnified and raised like a banner to prove a point. But in the end no point is ever made.
Im sure if you asked Don Rumsfeld right now if he enjoyed the memory of shaking Sadam's hand and greeting him with a smile, he would tell you, "No!"
Principle only matters when it glorifies the speaker.
codewolf Wrote the following on 02/13/2005 00:44 AM : PoPo - I posted that, and it was accompanied with the appropriate PDF that outlined the meeting previous to that meeting. I thought it would be interesting, I guess you didn't bother to read the link?
There was no political intent, just information provided, if you took the time to notice, I did not state that monkeyboy was an idiot, or anything, I just posted that picture and the pdf file that went with it.
codewolf Wrote the following on 02/13/2005 00:50 AM : Sometimes you should look before you leap. I post a lot of shit that pisses people off, but I try to post the truth.
Nony Wrote the following on 02/13/2005 02:39 AM : "Funny how when you hate a group so bad you will dig and dig and dig and wont stop looking till something bad or something that can be seen as bad is found and then its a trump card magnified and raised like a banner to prove a point. But in the end no point is ever made." -- Republican tactics this PoPo ... amazing you can't stand it when it happens the other way around. Did not hear you complain a couple of months ago when your glorious GOP was fabricating facts out of thin air to discredit the democrats.
Nony Wrote the following on 02/13/2005 05:43 AM : Read this PoPo Ronnie & Saddam
While America was selling WMD to Iraq, Reagan was also telling Saddam to increase his brutal campaign against the Iranian fundamentalist regime, even while Iraqi poison gas was falling on Persian battlefields. The Reagan presidency made America complicit in Saddam’s war crimes. Just a small quote. Did not even have to "dig" for this, is public record.
NeoCon Wrote the following on 02/13/2005 07:22 AM : FDR shook hands with Stalin.
DOES THIS MAKE FDR A COMMUNIST SUPPORTER?
Sky Wrote the following on 02/13/2005 09:53 AM : So typical..... Show people the TRUTH about how the US set up the mess that is now the Middle East and they still won't believe it. The facts are the facts and no amount of denial will ever alter them. Wake up people before it's too late.
Yesterday, Lord Bush once again played his game. In front of the cameras, made a statement wherein he used the words "Iran" and "mushroom cloud" in the same sentence. Here we go again!
PoPo Wrote the following on 02/13/2005 11:12 PM : Nony I have no clue what you are talking about fabricating whatever. I realy dont care to read up on it anyway. It realy doesnt matter ameba man Nony, what special quote by that "Regan hater" you expect me to buy. Its obvious if this so called declassified material is real that its writes have some clear "opinions" as do alot of poloticians who write that sort of stuff. Where the picture and the "PDF" file is suggestively pointing is a finger at people, just like a certain document did concerning the supposed special assistance Bush got durring the vietnam war that embarrassed the snot out of Dan Rather.
CW I know you posted that link bud. Im just curious- if you were not digging, why you dont post honest findings of "poop" you find on Kerry or Clinton or "Mr. UN" Cofe Anon? Its kinda odd how you say its "...no political intent, just information provided..." but all I see is stuff you lib guys find so innocently on Bush (or his people) all the time, & always negative while you try to fly the banner of "wow, look what I found by accident!" Where are the pictures with the others faces?
Like I said Sky, you can point the finger and act so unbiased all you libs want. You can try to lable non-belivers into a dumb class all you want, you can even act as though your supposed non-partisan reading is some kind of truth as if it can be so clear cut with our politics, but truth is always going to be relative. ESPECIALY WITH YOU LIBERALS!! Yes Sky I AM still calling you boys libs. Also this document can be disected and taken out of context and used for the oposite view just as eaily. Remember, its not what you think it is in world polotics. It never will be. If our government is always telling us lies why is it that this document is all of a sudden so revered? AS if I said something wrong. Im just saying its so convenient that these kinds of documents on Bush keep surfacing but the same subscribers will over look publishing the same evidence to the contrary view. Very convenient.
I read enough of this document CW to know where you were going with it. Down that same inmature M.Moore bull crap thats supposed to be so
"un favoring". Yes thats what I think of it even though it was writen long before M.Moores BS.
You can say I dont get it all you want, I still wont get the "it" that you think it should be Sky.
Now like I said: where are the reports on the other parties accusations and bloopers? I dont see you guys slipping that stuff onto the webpage as you so innocently do with the garbage you love to do with any and all Republican persons. What of your unbiased claims now?
Nony Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 02:27 AM : What is the point if what we post is not read by the likes of you anyway... You even wave off official papers as a "hoax" Man, you really are "up there" with NeoCon! (except you're not as racist as he is)
You don't like it, why don't you start posting crap about Kerry then.
Sky Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 09:49 AM : Nony, they don't READ anything. God forbid! That actually takes a bit of effort and historical documents might show their Beloved Leader to be the lying revisionist he is! Can't look at anything that might make a resonable person question Lord Bush. What? Are you nuts? No, no, no, education is not the answer for them. Their answer is to drag out the "L Word" (make that communist or Marxist for NeoToilet) over and over and over and over and over.
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 1:37 PM : PoPo......don't you get it? I know you do....but isn't it clear, it's not about principle? It's about hate. It's about an emotion. It's not about realism or facts. They hate Bush. Not out of some principle, or by way of critical thought - but because they are un-american. It's personal. They don't value freedom, liberty or any of the things that make our country great. They value government handouts and social engineering. A lot of that isn't happening right now, and knuckleheads like Ward Churchill in CO, are making it "popular" to bash America - to the point of calling for violence to get their point across. The more you stand up and make yourself a voice for American values, the more it pisses them off. It's not about right or wrong - it's about power and money for them. Just like how it's always been. It's not about serving the people - it's about making the other side look bad in hopes that it'll make their camp smell better to the American people.
Look at the election in Iraq!!! Did any of them stand up and say - WOW! Great job Mr. Bush, great job troops!! Didn't happen did it? That makes them neutered naysayers. If they recognized the good and the bad - it would make their opinions objective. But they only focus on the bad - they magnify the negative. It's all about the problem, and nothing about the quality or effectivenss of the solution.
Interesting thing is they are also dumb or numb to the fact that this strategy didn't work very well in Nov/04! And it won't in Nov/08 or the midterms if they don't change their tune. With Dean as the head of the DNC.....well we see a trend here don't we? It's like James Carville said - "we (dems) either need to figure out how to win elections or get out of the political business".
Don't ask them anything about the UN scandals PoPo. If the article doesn't blame Bush, or his administration and it doesn't come from a liberal, anti-american source they won't read it.
It's the victim/entitlement mentality. They see themselves as "victims" of the last election. I know - you must be asking yourself the same question right not - Victims of democracy? Is it possible, people could be so self-centered to see themselves as victims of a process other human beings are willing to die to participate in?? Yep. It's the epitome of political arrogance and they wear it like a badge of honor. I thought they'd shut their pie holes a few weeks after the election - you know - be men about it and support and respect the office? even if they hate the person holding the offie?......after they had their chance to make their voice be heard - fair and square??.....but the whining hasn't stopped has it?
I'm not holding my breath that it'll stop anytime soon. The world will be imperfect tomorrow - so it'll be Bush's fault. It's the illogical jumps of reason in their attempts to pin it all on Bush, that makes for the comedy I've grown to love about this site.
Anyways - on to more laughs!!!
Sky Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 1:44 PM : If any of you people believe I hate anyone, it is because hatred is all that you know. I DO NOT hate George W. Bush. I don't hate anyone on the face of the planet -- dislike them? Yes. Hate them? Never. I do not allow myself to hate; it simply is not a part of my being and never has been. I do know, not believe, know, that Bush is an immoral liar and a criminal. He does not deserve to be President of the United States and sullies that high office. He should be removed from office. The only reason I'm glad this isn't going to happen is that the next man in the line of succession is even worse.
Bubba Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 1:53 PM : Sky you backpedal quicker then a free safety at a Razorbacks game!!
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 2:14 PM : And there we go again: voicing dissent with the President is, once again, unpatriotic and subject to vocal charges of treason and Communism. Good job. I think you said more than you meant to.
Sky Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 2:14 PM : You are a liar, bubba. I've never once back-peddled. It's just you are too dim to follow complex arguments. Now, do you have ANYTHING USEFUL TO SAY ABOUT THIS THREAD? Or are you just like the other ditzes who come here to dis on those who disagree with whatever it is you believe in. Thought so.
Nony Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 2:26 PM : All that has been happening on this thread is dealing with the truth about what happened in 1983 between the US and Iraq... If you guys don't believe it look it up yourself. It is public domain. There is no vilivication involved. What happened in the past happened. No matter what kind of light you put on it. The US cooperated with Saddam and helped him out. It is you righwingers that started blabbing about hate, lies and violence and what not. I am just fed up with you "patriotic americans" constantly denying that the US might have misjudged or mishandled in the past, especially if the "heros" R Reagan or Bush Sr or Jr are involved.
You want me to start posting articles about how Amercan CIA agents (organized by Kermit Roosevelt, grandson of) helped bring down the democratic elected president of Iraq in 1953 so they could put the Sjah on the Peacock Throne because they were afraid of Iran selling oil to Russia. The Sjah got tossed out in 1979 by the islamic revolutionaries, because he as "such a nice man"... so there you go, the meddling of the USA in 1953 gave birth to this bloody iran mess now. Oh and did you know that the Iranians gave us a lot of very valuable intel on the Taliban and really cooperated on a high level about Afghanistan in 2001?
So it looked promising that the relations between the States and Iran were finaly going to improve... but then Jackass Bush has to give is Axis of Evil speech ... oops worms all over the floor.
Yeah Patriot, I make this all up...
Sky Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 2:43 PM : And, Nony, while "we're making things up, let's give the illiterati something else to chew on. When the USSR invaded Afghanistan, the the Reagan administration supplied and supported the Mujahedin, a little "Freedom Fighter" group who were also known by another name: the Taliban, who partnered up with (Dubya's old pal) Osama bin Laden and his merry men, Al-Qaeda. Gasp! What! Not possible!
Sky Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 2:51 PM : And here's a bit more on Osama and his Taliban connections. It also address the false comment made a few days ago in another thread the Clinton never did anything to deal with bin Laden. Probably own't be read or believed, either, but here it is nonetheless.
Nony Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 2:58 PM : Cool link! LOL
Is there not a James Bond movie where 007 thwarts a russian plot with the help of the Mujahedin? (The Living Daylights - 1987) Showing clearly that the Mujahedin were considered allies.
They might believe that!
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 4:20 PM : Well stop the bus here a minute. I did read the articles. You mean to tell me that we used to be allies with a country or group of people that are now our enemy? That's never happened before! (heavy sarcasm)
....you guys crack me up. You can't apply your philosophy of high school dating (ie, if I ever dated her, she's ok now) to world politics. Wake up - these guys want to kill us. I thought you bleedin' hearts democrats were the party of inclusion and the little guy? What about the little guy(s) who were going to work on the 82nd floor of Tower II on 09/11/01?
Nony Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 4:23 PM : What about an 18 year old infantry man who gets himself shot for a lie?
Tattoo Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 4:26 PM : De plane! De Plane!
Mr Roarke: Welcome everyone to Dubya's Fantasy Island! Here you may ignore reality just as you desire. Nothing is real here, execpt the guns and bombs and missles, and tanks and napalm, and mutilated children. There are enough dead Iraqis to go around, so don't be greedy. If there is something you need, simply contact your assigned Haliburton representative, who will purchase it for you at 500 times it's value and send the bill to your children. In each of your rooms, you will find a copy of Bill O'Reilly's New Revised American History for Republicans, compliments of Fox News. Read it carefully; it will make your stay here so much more pleasant. One warning: Believe everything you are told. Take everything at face value. We will tell you everything you need to know. Question nothing and no one while you are vistiting here. If you do, we will have no choice to to move you to the other side of the island to our Guantanamo Bay Club for Unpatriotic Citizens Who Need to Get Right with Jesus.
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 4:44 PM : Nony - What's the lie? That muslims hate our guts and want us dead? That one's true Nony. If you don't believe me, you should talk to one of the people's familes that's listed below. They'll tell you all about the violent, murderous embodiement of Islamic extremism. This is just the list from the trade center towers. Doesn't include the pentagon or the plane that went down in the Penn Field.
WORLD TRADE CENTER
Gordon McCannel Aamoth, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Maria Rose Abad, 49, Syosset, N.Y.*
Edelmiro (Ed) Abad, 54, New York, N.Y.*
Andrew Anthony Abate, 37, Melville, N.Y.*
Vincent Abate, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Laurence Christopher Abel, 37*
William F. Abrahamson, 58, Cortland Manor, N.Y.*
Richard Anthony Aceto, 42, Wantagh, N.Y.*
Erica Van Acker, 62, New York, N.Y.*
Heinrich B. Ackermann, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Paul Andrew Acquaviva, 29, Glen Rock, N.J.*
Donald L. Adams, 28, Chatham, N.J.*
Shannon Lewis Adams, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Stephen Adams, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Patrick Adams, 60, New York, N.Y.*
Ignatius Adanga, 62, New York, N.Y.*
Christy A. Addamo, 28, New Hyde Park, N.Y.*
Terence E. Adderley, 22, Bloomfield Hills, Mich.*
Sophia B. Addo, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Lee Adler, 48, Springfield, N.J.*
Daniel Thomas Afflitto, 32, Manalapan, N.J.*
Emmanuel Afuakwah, 37, New York, N.Y.
Alok Agarwal, 36, Jersey City, N.J.*
Mukul Agarwala, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Agnello, 35, New York, N.Y.*
David Scott Agnes, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Joao A. Aguiar Jr., 30, Red Bank, N.J.*
Lt. Brian G. Ahearn, 43, Huntington, N.Y.*
Jeremiah J. Ahern, 74, Cliffside Park, N.J.*
Joanne Ahladiotis, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Shabbir Ahmed, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Terrance Andre Aiken, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Godwin Ajala, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Gertrude M. Alagero, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Andrew Alameno, 37, Westfield, N.J.*
Margaret Ann (Peggy) Jezycki Alario, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Gary Albero, 39, Emerson, N.J.*
Jon L. Albert, 46, Upper Nyack, N.Y.*
Peter Craig Alderman, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Jacquelyn Delaine Aldridge, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Grace Alegre-Cua, 40, Glen Rock, N.J.*
David D. Alger, 57, New York, N.Y.*
Ernest Alikakos, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Edward L. Allegretto, 51, Colonia, N.J.*
Eric Allen, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Ryan Allen, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Richard Lanard Allen, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Richard Dennis Allen, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Christopher Edward Allingham, 36, River Edge, N.J.*
Lt. Christopher P. Sullivan, 38, Massapequa, N.Y.*
Patrick Sullivan, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas Sullivan, 38, Kearney, N.J.*
Hilario Soriano (Larry) Sumaya, 42, New York, N.Y.*
James Joseph Suozzo, 47, Hauppauge, N.Y.*
Colleen Supinski, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Robert Sutcliffe, 39, Huntington, N.Y.*
Selina Sutter, 63, New York, N.Y.*
Claudia Suzette Sutton, 34, New York, N.Y.*
John F. Swaine, 36, Larchmont, N.Y.
Kristine M. Swearson, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Brian Edward Sweeney, 29, Merrick, N.Y.*
Kenneth J. Swensen, 40, Chatham, N.J.*
Thomas F. Swift, 30, Jersey City, N.J.*
Derek O. Sword, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Kevin T. Szocik, 27, Garden City, N.Y.
Gina Sztejnberg, 52, Ridgewood, N.J.*
Norbert P. Szurkowski, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Harry Taback, 56, New York, N.Y.*
Joann Tabeek, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Norma C. Taddei, 64, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Taddonio, 39, Huntington, N.Y.*
Keiji Takahashi, 42, Tenafly, N.J.*
Keiichiro Takahashi, 53, Port Washington, N.Y.*
Phyllis Gail Talbot, 53, New York, N.Y.*
Robert R. Talhami, 40, Shrewsbury, N.J.*
Sean Patrick Tallon, 26, Yonkers, N.Y.*
Paul Talty, 40, Wantagh, N.Y.*
Maurita Tam, 22, New York, N.Y.*
Rachel Tamares, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Hector Tamayo, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Andrew Tamuccio, 37, Pelham Manor, N.Y.*
Kenichiro Tanaka, 52, Rye Brook, N.Y.
Rhondelle Cherie Tankard, 31, Devonshire, Bermuda
Michael Anthony Tanner, 44, Secaucus, N.J.*
Dennis Gerard Taormina, 36, Montville, N.J.*
Kenneth Joseph Tarantino, 39, Bayonne, N.J.*
Allan Tarasiewicz, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Ronald Tartaro, 39, Bridgewater, N.J.
Darryl Taylor, 52, New York, N.Y.
Donnie Brooks Taylor, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Lorisa Ceylon Taylor, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Michael M. Taylor, 42, New York, N.Y.*
Paul A. Tegtmeier, 41, Hyde Park, N.Y.*
Yeshavant Moreshwar Tembe, 59, Piscataway, N.J.*
Anthony Tempesta, 38, Elizabeth, N.J.*
Dorothy Temple, 52, New York, N.Y.*
Stanley L. Temple, 77, New York, N.Y.
David Tengelin, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Brian J. Terrenzi, 29, Hicksville, N.Y.*
Lisa Marie Terry, 42, Rochester, Mich.*
Goumatie T. Thackurdeen, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Harshad Sham Thatte, 30, Norcross, Ga.*
Thomas F. Theurkauf, 44, Stamford, Conn.*
Lesley Anne Thomas, 40, Hoboken, N.J.
Brian T. Thompson, 49, Dix Hills, N.Y.*
Clive Thompson, 43, Summit, N.J.*
Glenn Thompson, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Perry Anthony Thompson, 36, Mount Laurel, N.J.*
Vanavah Alexi Thompson, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Capt. William Harry Thompson, 51, New York, N.Y.*
Nigel Bruce Thompson, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Eric Raymond Thorpe, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Nichola A. Thorpe, 22, New York, N.Y.*
Sal Tieri, 40, Shrewsbury, N.J.*
John Patrick Tierney, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Mary Ellen Tiesi, 38, Jersey City, N.J.*
William R. Tieste, 54, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
Kenneth F. Tietjen, 31, Matawan, N.J.*
Stephen Edward Tighe, 41, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Scott C. Timmes, 28, Ridgewood, N.Y.*
Michael E. Tinley, 56, Dallas, Texas*
Jennifer M. Tino, 29, Livingston, N.J.*
Robert Frank Tipaldi, 25, New York, N.Y.*
John J. Tipping, 33, Port Jefferson, N.Y.*
David Tirado, 26, New York, N.Y.
Hector Luis Tirado, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Michelle Titolo, 34, Copiague, N.Y.*
John J. Tobin, 47, Kenilworth, N.J.
Richard J. Todisco, 61, Wyckoff, N.J.*
Vladimir Tomasevic, 36, Etobicoke, Ontario, Canada*
Stephen K. Tompsett, 39, Garden City, N.Y.*
Thomas Tong, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Azucena de la Torre, 50, New York, N.Y.*
Doris Torres, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Luis Eduardo Torres, 31, New York, N.Y.*
Amy E. Toyen, 24, Newton, Mass.*
Christopher M. Traina, 25, Bricktown, N.J.*
Daniel Patrick Trant, 40, Northport, N.Y.*
Abdoul Karim Traore, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Glenn J. Travers, 53, Tenafly, N.J.*
Walter (Wally) P. Travers, 44, Upper Saddle River, N.J.*
Felicia Traylor-Bass, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Lisa L. Trerotola, 38, Hazlet, N.J.*
Karamo Trerra, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Trinidad, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Francis Joseph Trombino, 68, Clifton, N.J.*
Gregory J. Trost, 26, New York, N.Y.*
William Tselepis, 33, New Providence, N.J.*
Zhanetta Tsoy, 32, Jersey City, N.J.*
Michael Patrick Tucker, 40, Rumson, N.J.*
Lance Richard Tumulty, 32, Bridgewater, N.J.*
Ching Ping Tung, 44, New York, N.Y.
Simon James Turner, 39, London, England*
Donald Joseph Tuzio, 51, Goshen, N.Y.*
Robert T. Twomey, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Jennifer Tzemis, 26, New York, N.Y.*
John G. Ueltzhoeffer, 36, Roselle Park, N.J.*
Tyler V. Ugolyn, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Michael A. Uliano, 42, Aberdeen, N.J.*
Jonathan J. Uman, 33, Westport, Conn.*
Anil Shivhari Umarkar, 34, Hackensack, N.J.*
Allen V. Upton, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Diane Maria Urban, 50, Malverne, N.Y.*
John Damien Vaccacio, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Bradley H. Vadas, 37, Westport, Conn.*
William Valcarcel, 54, New York, N.Y.*
Mayra Valdes-Rodriguez, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Felix Antonio Vale, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Ivan Vale, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Santos Valentin, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Benito Valentin, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Manuel Del Valle, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Carlton Francis Valvo, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Edward Raymond Vanacore, 29, Jersey City, N.J.*
Jon C. Vandevander, 44, Ridgewood, N.J.*
Frederick T. Varacchi, 35, Greenwich, Conn.*
Gopalakrishnan Varadhan, 32, New York, N.Y.*
David Vargas, 46, New York, N.Y.*
Scott C. Vasel, 32, Park Ridge, N.J.*
Santos Vasquez, 55, New York, N.Y.
Azael Ismael Vasquez, 21, New York, N.Y.*
Arcangel Vazquez, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Peter Anthony Vega, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Sankara S. Velamuri, 63, Avenel, N.J.*
Jorge Velazquez, 47, Passaic, N.J.*
Lawrence Veling, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Anthony M. Ventura, 41, Middletown, N.J.
David Vera, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Loretta A, Vero, 51, Nanuet, N.Y.
Christopher Vialonga, 30, Demarest, N.J.*
Matthew Gilbert Vianna, 23, Manhasset, N.Y.*
Robert A. Vicario, 40, Weehawken, N.J.*
Celeste Torres Victoria, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Joanna Vidal, 26, Yonkers, N.Y.*
John T. Vigiano, 36, West Islip, N.Y.*
Joseph Vincent Vigiano, 34, Medford, N.Y.*
Frank J. Vignola, 44, Merrick, N.Y.*
Joseph B. Vilardo, 44, Stanhope, N.J.
Sergio Villanueva, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Chantal Vincelli, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Melissa Vincent, 28, Hoboken, N.J.*
Francine A. Virgilio, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Lawrence Virgilio, 38*
Joseph G. Visciano, 22, New York, N.Y.*
Joshua S. Vitale, 28, Great Neck, N.Y.*
Maria Percoco Vola, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Lynette D. Vosges, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Garo H. Voskerijian, 43, Valley Stream, N.Y.*
Alfred Vukosa, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Gregory Wachtler, 25, Ramsey, N.J.*
Gabriela Waisman, 33, New York, N.Y.*
Wendy Alice Rosario Wakeford, 40, Freehold, N.J.*
Courtney Wainsworth Walcott, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Victor Wald, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Benjamin Walker, 41, Suffern, N.Y.
Glen J. Wall, 38, Rumson, N.J.*
Mitchel Scott Wallace, 34, Mineola, N.Y.*
Lt. Robert F. Wallace, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Roy Michael Wallace, 42, Wyckoff, N.J.*
Peter G. Wallace, 66, Lincoln Park, N.J.*
Jean Marie Wallendorf, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Matthew Blake Wallens, 31, New York, N.Y.*
John Wallice, 43, Huntington, N.Y.*
Barbara P. Walsh, 59, New York, N.Y.*
James Walsh, 37, Scotch Plains, N.J.*
Jeffrey Patrick Walz, 37, Tuckahoe, N.Y.*
Ching H. Wang, 59, New York, N.Y.
Weibin Wang, 41, Orangeburg, N.Y.*
Lt. Michael Warchola, 51, Middle Village, N.Y.*
Stephen Gordon Ward, 33, Gorham, Maine*
James A. Waring, 49, New York, N.Y.*
Brian G. Warner, 32, Morganville, N.J.*
Derrick Washington, 33, Calverton, N.Y.*
Charles Waters, 44, New York, N.Y.*
James Thomas (Muddy) Waters, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Capt. Patrick J. Waters, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Kenneth Watson, 39, Smithtown, N.Y.*
Michael H. Waye, 38, Morganville, N.J.*
Walter E. Weaver, 30, Centereach, N.Y.*
Todd C. Weaver, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Nathaniel Webb, 56, Jersey City, N.J.*
Dinah Webster, 50, Port Washington, N.Y.*
Joanne Flora Weil, 39, New York, N.Y.*
Michael Weinberg, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Steven Weinberg, 41, New City, N.Y.*
Scott Jeffrey Weingard, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Steven Weinstein, 50, New York, N.Y.
Simon Weiser, 65, New York, N.Y.*
David T. Weiss, 50, New York, N.Y.
David M. Weiss, 41, Maybrook, N.Y.*
Vincent Michael Wells, 22, Redbridge, England*
Timothy Matthew Welty, 34, Yonkers, N.Y.*
Christian Hans Rudolf Wemmers, 43, San Francisco, Calif.*
Ssu-Hui (Vanessa) Wen, 23, New York, N.Y.*
Oleh D. Wengerchuk, 56, Centerport, N.Y.*
Peter M. West, 54, Pottersville, N.J.*
Whitfield West, 41, New York, N.Y.
Meredith Lynn Whalen, 23, Hoboken, N.J.*
Eugene Whelan, 31, Rockaway Beach, N.Y.*
John S. White, 48, New York, N.Y.*
Edward James White, 30, New York, N.Y.*
James Patrick White, 34, Hoboken, N.J.*
Kenneth W. White, 50, New York, N.Y.*
Leonard Anthony White, 57, New York, N.Y.*
Malissa White, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Wayne White, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Adam S. White, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Leanne Marie Whiteside, 31, New York, N.Y.
Mark Whitford, 31, Salisbury Mills, N.Y.*
Michael T. Wholey, 34, Westwood, N.J.*
Mary Lenz Wieman, 43, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Jeffrey David Wiener, 33, New York, N.Y.*
William J. Wik, 44, Crestwood, N.Y.*
Alison Marie Wildman, 30, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. Glenn Wilkinson, 46, Bayport, N.Y.*
John C. Willett, 29, Jersey City, N.J.*
Brian Patrick Williams, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Crossley Williams, 28, Uniondale, N.Y.*
David Williams, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Deborah Lynn Williams, 35, Hoboken, N.J.*
Kevin Michael Williams, 24, New York, N.Y.*
Louis Calvin Williams, 53, Mandeville, La.
Louie Anthony Williams, 44, New York, N.Y.*
Lt. John Williamson, 46, Warwick, N.Y.*
Donna Wilson, 48, Williston Park, N.Y.*
William E. Wilson, 58, New York, N.Y.*
Cynthia Wilson, 52, New York, N.Y.*
David H. Winton, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Glenn J. Winuk, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Thomas Francis Wise, 43, New York, N.Y.*
Alan L. Wisniewski, 47, Howell, N.J.*
Frank T. Wisniewski, 54, Basking Ridge, N.J.*
David Wiswall, 54, North Massapequa, N.Y.*
Sigrid Charlotte Wiswe, 41, New York, N.Y.*
Michael R. Wittenstein, 34, Hoboken, N.J.*
Christopher W. Wodenshek, 35, Ridgewood, N.J.*
Martin P. Wohlforth, 47, Greenwich, Conn.*
Katherine S. Wolf, 40, New York, N.Y.*
Jenny Seu Kueng Low Wong, 25, New York, N.Y.*
Jennifer Y. Wong, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Siu Cheung Wong, 34, Jersey City, N.J.*
Yin Ping (Steven) Wong, 34, New York, N.Y.*
Yuk Ping Wong, 47, New York, N.Y.*
Brent James Woodall, 31, Oradell, N.J.*
James J. Woods, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Patrick Woods, 36, New York, N.Y.*
Richard Herron Woodwell, 44, Ho-Ho-Kus, N.J.
Capt. David Terence Wooley, 54, Nanuet, N.Y.*
John Bentley Works, 36, Darien, Conn.
Martin Michael Wortley, 29, Park Ridge, N.J.*
Rodney James Wotton, 36, Middletown, N.J.*
William Wren, 61, Lynbrook, N.Y.*
John Wright, 33, Rockville Centre, N.Y.*
Neil R. Wright, 30, Asbury, N.J.*
Sandra Wright, 57, Langhorne, Pa.*
Jupiter Yambem, 41, Beacon, N.Y.*
Suresh Yanamadala, 33, Plainsboro, N.J.*
Matthew David Yarnell, 26, Jersey City, N.J.*
Myrna Yaskulka, 59, New York, N.Y.*
Shakila Yasmin, 26, New York, N.Y.*
Olabisi L. Yee, 38, New York, N.Y.*
Edward P. York, 45, Wilton, Conn.
Kevin Patrick York, 41, Princeton, N.J.*
Raymond York, 45, Valley Stream, N.Y.*
Suzanne Youmans, 60, New York, N.Y.*
Jacqueline (Jakki) Young, 37, New York, N.Y.*
Barrington L. Young, 35, New York, N.Y.*
Elkin Yuen, 32, New York, N.Y.*
Joseph Zaccoli, 39, Valley Stream, N.Y.*
Adel Agayby Zakhary, 50, North Arlington, N.J.*
Arkady Zaltsman, 45, New York, N.Y.*
Edwin J. Zambrana, 24, New York, N.Y.*
Robert Alan Zampieri, 30, Saddle River, N.J.*
Mark Zangrilli, 36, Pompton Plains, N.J.*
Ira Zaslow, 55, North Woodmere, N.Y.*
Kenneth Albert Zelman, 37, Succasunna, N.J.*
Abraham J. Zelmanowitz, 55, New York, N.Y.*
Martin Morales Zempoaltecatl, 22, New York, N.Y.*
Zhe (Zack) Zeng, 28, New York, N.Y.*
Marc Scott Zeplin, 33, Harrison, N.Y.*
Jie Yao Justin Zhao, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Ivelin Ziminski, 40, Tarrytown, N.Y.
Michael Joseph Zinzi, 37, Newfoundland, N.J.*
Charles A. Zion, 54, Greenwich, Conn.*
Julie Lynne Zipper, 44, Paramus, N.J.
Salvatore J. Zisa, 45, Hawthorne, N.J.*
Prokopios Paul Zois, 46, Lynbrook, N.Y.*
Joseph J. Zuccala, 54, Croton-on-Hudson, N.Y.*
Andrew Steven Zucker, 27, New York, N.Y.*
Igor Zukelman, 29, New York, N.Y.*
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/14/2005 8:14 PM : Patriot, source? Citation?
Sky Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 05:45 AM : Patriot's last post is proof positive of what an indoctrinated idiot he is. This thread is about Donald Rumsfeld and the US's policy of interferring with politics and balances of power for their own advandate and the inevitable results of such actions. He has nothing of value to add and has no real idea of what we are talking about here. So what does he do? He puts up a list of all the poeple who died in the WTC. Once again we have a Bush Nazi trying to tie Iraq to the 911 attacks.
I find this particulary offensive, since one of my company's clients occupied 26 floors of tthe WTC, and 28 of there employees died that day. Four of these were close colleagues with whom I'd formed good relationships over the years. So I'm sick to death of having to continually suffer these neocon assholes trying to use the 911 attacks as a facade of support for their lust for death and destruction.
Muslims do not hate me. They hate the "Patriots" of America.
Baldric Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 08:31 AM : Just think, Patriot how many tens of thousands innocent Iraqi's have been killed to satisfy your very unchristian demand for revenge! Oh yes, I know you can probably find an appropriate verse in the bible to wave arround, but then the bible is very flexible tool.
Agree with Sky on this, no need to abuse the name of those who died on 9-11 to serve you purpose to try and call on feelings of anger, hate or revenge. This is in very bad taste. No I have not forgotten, it only brings anger towards those caught sleeping on the job.
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 09:32 AM : Thank you for more of your hate Sky. At least you're an equal oppurtunity hater. I'm glad to see you're finally directing it at others besides yourself. That's the first step towards getting healthy.
My post was in response to Nony's post. NOT THIS TOPIC. This is obvious, but again, you were hijacked by your emotions and failed to think before you wrote. I lost two family members on my wifes side in the attack. I don't feel proud about it like you. I feel sad and angry. I think this is healthy.
Revenge is different then justice and protection. Revenge is placing the terrorists and/or their families in a tall building and then flying planes filled with their countrymen into them. Justice is the practice of investigation and execution of those that played a part in this horrific act. Protection is the propagation of liberty and stability to the regions of the world that gives birth to these animals and their mentality.
Sky, part of the problem in our country is the way you think about the problem. You're denial that you don't hate, and that you're "perfect", is the delusion that propogates unchanged ideas and policies. It's the culture of complaceny and denial that lead to 9/11. Thank God, the majority of the American people were intelligent enough to elect a leader who had the courage to lead our country through change.
God Bless the victims of 9/11 and their families. And may God watch over our nation today.
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 09:57 AM : Patriot, source? Citation?
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 10:04 AM : Sky - I've got an honest, fair question for you.
Do you understand the current adminsitration's strategy for dealing with terrorism?
I realize you may disagree with Bush, on a personal level about many issues. But do you understand what they are doing?
And before you rub your fingers raw typing a dissertation about "Bush lickers" and "I must dissent!", do you understand what you're dissenting against?
Do you understand the current strategy against terrorism that our country is executing?
No More Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 10:10 AM : Enough death already!
Sky Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 10:10 AM : Honest Answers:
"Do you understand the current adminsitration's strategy for dealing with terrorism?"
Yes.
"I realize you may disagree with Bush, on a personal level about many issues. But do you understand what they are doing?"
Yes.
"And before you rub your fingers raw typing a dissertation about "Bush lickers" and "I must dissent!", do you understand what you're dissenting against?"
Yes.
"Do you understand the current strategy against terrorism that our country is executing?"
Yes.
I've read the PNAC. I know what Bush, Inc. is up to.
Sky Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 10:14 AM : You, too, are a liar, Patriot. The only people at CW I've ever seen spout hatred is you, NeoCon, PoPo, and your fascist buddies. The rest of us are campaigning AGAINST your hartred. We want to stop all this senseless killing in the names of "freedom" and "libert." Continue to attack me. It makes you look all the more like the fool you are.
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 10:18 AM : Great! You can read. Now - How about paying attention? Remember the last discussion we had about being honest with yourself about Bush's propaganda?Think critically about all the propaganda you whine and complain about and then please, by all means, explain the strategy as you see it. Not just what is written in the PNAC. I'm talking about actions here. Not words...because remember!! - ALL WARTIME PRESIDENTS PRACTICE DECEPTION.
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 10:28 AM : Sky - I've never met you. I don't know you on a personal level. This goes without saying, but you seem to continually stumble on this fact. I understand your mentality and your ideas. I understand that you have a problem with anger and as such it's the root error of most of your ideas. The key to dealing with your anger is to be angry with the right person(s) at the right time, to the right degree.
There is a purpose for anger. There is a reason you felt angry after the 9/11 attacks. You were made to feel this way - angry in the face of evil. To stuff it down and now misdirect it at your fellow countrymen, is a perversion and misuse of this anger.
Sky Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 11:40 AM : You understant nothing whatsoever about me, Patirot. The mere suggestion is ludicrous. You are incapable understnding someone like me.
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 11:56 AM : Sky - do you have your glasses on today? We established this already.
"Sky - I've never met you. I don't know you on a personal level. This goes without saying, but you seem to continually stumble on this fact."
Now can we get back to the topic at hand, or don't you have anything useful to add to the conversation?
I'll ask you again:
Do you understand the current strategy against terrorism that our country is executing?
Before you answer consider the last discussion we had about being honest with yourself about Bush's propaganda.Think critically about all the propaganda you whine and complain about and then explain the strategy as you see it. Not just what is written in the PNAC. I'm talking about actions here. Not words...because remember!! - ALL WARTIME PRESIDENTS PRACTICE DECEPTION.
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 1:11 PM : No, you're wrong Patriot. All presidents lie. Period
Sky Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 4:02 PM : "I'll ask you again:"
Here's a novel idea for you, Patriot. Figure it out for yourself. Start by asking one simple question: Since we started our take-over of Iraq, exactly what actions has the Bush administration taken in it's War on Terror?
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 7:11 PM : I understand it fine. Not perfectly, but I understand the strategy. I asked you, because I don't think you understand the strategy, because your standard cut and paste answer to anything we're doing in Iraq is: "there is no link between Iraq and Osama". When you say "link" I assume you mean a smoking gun, a direct link. There is a link, but it's not that Osama and Saddam are brothers, which seems to be the only evidence that would count for you.
Jesus steals hubcaps... Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 7:34 PM : There is no link between Saddam and Osama except that they have a dislike for each other.
unless he's a mexican... Wrote the following on 02/15/2005 10:57 PM : That's right. In every foreigner, there's an American dying to get out. Their jobs are to liberate those Americans in any way possible. Understand?
Jose Wrote the following on 02/16/2005 08:53 AM : ?Como?
Ben Franklin Wrote the following on 02/16/2005 4:25 PM : " All human situations have their inconveniences. We feel those of the present but neither see nor feel those of the future; and hence we often make troublesome changes without amendment, and frequently for the worse. "
Nony Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 02:54 AM : Somebody bought or read a book filled with stale quotes and the "dramatized version" of the actual rather boring lives of the "great godlike heros" of 2 centuries ago? Pure propaganda.
Marcus Tullius Cicero Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 03:58 AM : An unjust peace is better than a just war.
Sky Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 05:57 AM : I posted the Franklin qoute because it is a propos to the situation we've created in Iraq. I've read Franklin and he ws anything but boring, Nony. This particular quote shows that Franklin was wiser than any politician alive today.
Nony Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 11:02 AM : Well, had just read an interesting article how the "dramatized" and "patriotic" lives of the "founding fathers" were becoming extremely popular in the US to the great pleasure of the white house, so when I came here and saw the George Washington and Ben Franklin quote... when I got to this one, I just commented without actually reading the quote. Sorry. I agree with you, Benjamin Franklin is one of the more interesting ones...
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 11:08 AM : Dear old Ben had his head on right in more ways than that!
Sky Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 11:35 AM : If you ever want a light hoot of a read, there is a collection of Franklin's satirical essays called "Fart Proudly," wherin he extolls the virtues of a really good fart, practical advice on how to keep a mistress, whore house ediquitte, and several other hilarious topics. You know that Franklin used to write letters to the editor of the Philadelphia newspaper using a pseudonym to discuss an issue and then write again a few days later, using a different pseudonym, to offer an opposing viewpoint. Sometimes the topics were serious, but often they were absurd.
The thing that tickles me about the Bible-thumpping neocons is that they don't even realize that our Consitution and form of government is one of the crowning acheivements of secular humanism.
Surfer, you're a North Carolinian, so you'll appreciate this little tidbit of American History. Did you know that North Carolnia refused to ratify the Constitution unless it contained the Bill of Rights?
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 1:58 PM : I wouldn't call me a North Carolinian, but rather just say I live there. Yes I knew that but I also knew that it's primarily South Carolina's fault for the civil war claiming that they didn't have to agree with any federal law they didn't like and that succession was a perfectly legitimate way to express that.
Sky Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 2:08 PM : As someone who lived in Charleston for 12 years, I can assure you it should come to no surprise that the Civil War began there. To this day, they believe that Charleston is the fixed point of the universe and that they do not need anyone - especially, gasp! Yankees - telling how to do anything. It is a lovely and charming city, though.
PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 3:24 PM : Thank you for posting that Patriot. Its the real reason and point.
Infact its all that matters...
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 3:34 PM : PoPo, are you talking about that big long list up there? He hasn't given a source for it, although I've asked him twice. For all we know, it could be just some crap he or someone else typed up. Yessir, revenge is all you need to kill the world. Fuck you.
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 5:19 PM : Actually, you're right surfer. I made the list up. I copied a baby name's book and posted it. LOL! No one even died on 9/11 it's a cover-up by the Jewish people. (think critically Surfer, where would YOU get these names?)
One day it may dawn on you the proof is in the pudding and not the cook's pedigree or the recipe. Until then, please keep up the anal jackass routine by begging for sources to online opinions as if this is Codewolf U.
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 5:35 PM : No source, no belief. Simple as that. It may make you happy to just believe in something because you want to, but that doesn't change anything.
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 5:39 PM : And since when was a death (or a hundred, or a thousand, etc) an opinion? If you got that list from somewhere, cite it. Back it up as fact. (Aw, shit...forgot who I was talking to for a minute). Sorry, Patriot. Forgive me for confronting you to prove that you actually know what you're talking about and thinking for one moment that you might not actually have gone and compiled that list yourself (or worse, that you just might have done some research - research that turned up someone else's list and that that someone else might have a hole in their head).
The Codewolf Reference Librarian Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 5:43 PM : Please make a donation to any of the charities listed at www.september11victims.com and then I will happily forward you the link. The minimum donation is $10/name.
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 5:45 PM : Ahh shit I forgot my real name!! Where's my birth certificate??
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 5:47 PM : I sure do hope the nurse who recorded your birth certificate didn't have a hole in her head! LMAO!!
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:19 PM : Naw, that wasn't me. It's just someone getting pissed off again simply cause they don't agree with free speech.
Surfer Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 6:20 PM : But still, the question remains, when is a recorded death a matter of opinion?
PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 9:47 PM : I keep trying to think of what to say to all the stupid things Sky keeps trying to say. And what ignorance and accusations that people keep saying agaisnt any one that doesnt agree with them, followed by explatives and all I can do is sigh, and think...
God bless America, my home sweet home!
Are you with me Patriot?
PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 10:01 PM : The one problem with free speach is that even though all things are exceptable to be freely spoken, not all are true or agreed upon, and though this is not particularly an issue, it frustrates the less confident most insecure of the people who in turn eventualy become unconfortable with the opposing views that keep ringing in there ears, and they in time, explode into real mature statements and outbursts such as: "Fuck you." More evidence of ignorance...I would conclude with
"One day things that you ignored will be all that you see,
and things you prized will be invisible, as your last breath leaves your chest...."
In the end what wars we should fight are the ones we can win, and not the ones we are too small for.
PoPo Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 10:52 PM : I would like to bring this topic back on track with this statement:
Just because a now cabinet member is on film shaking hands with at the time "another world leader" means only that. In world politics, then and now enemys shake hands not as show of loyalty but out of ritual so to speak.
Many if not all of our leaders now and back then all do this. They meet with and talk at times in deep or shallow discussion groups or whatever. All poloticians do it. There are liberals and republicans today who have traveled all over and shaken hands and greeted world leaders with smiles. There are political bonds both deeply rooted and some that are only cosmetic. There are all types of functions in world polotics in which any given polotician can be in contract with or in meeting with, or involved in some way with whoever they are. It doesnt matter 20 years down the road, though. Some of them turn out to later be enemys and thats expected of poloticians. Especialy since most are lawyers anyway. So the above document and or video footage is only what we see on the surface of the broader vantage point. Just because I smiled and enjoyed my time with a cab driver who took me to the air port 8 years ago, doesnt mean I had something to do with his decision to rape 13 kids just because I supported him via cab fare. Does it?
Patriot Wrote the following on 02/17/2005 10:58 PM : As long as you didn't tip him with candy, I don't think you qualify as aiding and abeding. LOL.
How's the wife and the bun in the oven Mr. PoPo? Isn't your due date coming up?
PoPo Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 3:44 PM : We are very good, and she is healthy. At 5 months now. We are having a girl. I am online looking for puppy borders for the room we are designing. Its funn/scary/exciting all in one rollercoaster ride experiance. Cant wait.
Golly Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 3:49 PM : Home Deport has puppy borders. I have seen them there.
Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 3:51 PM : I'm so glad I'm not having children ... the mere idea of "puppy borders" sounds creepy.
Golly Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:25 PM : No, cat borders would be creepy. :)
Alice Wrote the following on 02/18/2005 4:27 PM : Borders are creepy .. kids are creepy .. I think convention in any sense is fairly creepy.
PoPo Wrote the following on 02/25/2005 11:23 AM : LOL
Alice you are starting to creep me out. Stop it!!
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