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Police ask a town's men for DNA - Calling it "a serious intrusion on personal privacy" that is unlikely to yield results, the American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts sent a letter to Cape Cod prosecutor Michael O'Keefe and Truro Police Chief John Thomas, urging them to end the DNA effort.

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Socket7 Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 00:28 AM :
They can have my DNA when I cum on their face.

Assinine.


PoPo Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 1:57 PM :
Oh my they took my DNA!!! Now what will I do?!?!?

Oh yeah I didnt do it. I got nothing to worry about.

Only those with guilty consciences have to worry when the police need to investigate.


Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 1:59 PM :
That's what I though when I read this PoPo. If you're got nothing to hide, what's the problem?

They have used this method in small villages in england. It tends to work.



Nony Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:06 PM :
Agree here too! I don't care if they have my fingerprints or DNA on record, I'm not planning any crime for the near future. Why not go a bit further and do like here, everybody carries an ID card with picture, legal address and Social Security number on it, issued by the government after verification of the individual by the local officer. So whenever they stop you for a check, immediate verificatio of person(s) Seriously limits illegals etc.


Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:12 PM :
They are trying to institute something like that in the UK. Folks are pretty resistant. I suppose I understand a bit .. over there you can be very anonymous, folks tend to take you at your word that you are who you say you are, as it's very hard to prove otherwise ... this causes a lot of problems though, it's very easy to commit benefits fraud. What a mess.


Thomas Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:13 PM :
Who cares about your weenie little DNA anyway? Probably a micro.



Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:16 PM :
You know, it just occured to me that Thomas has nothing to do with Timmy .. I'm losing my mind today ... the correct name would be Timothy, wouldn't it. I guess I forgot my brain medicine today :)


Golly Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:22 PM :
Alice, I was wondering about your logic when you suggested Thomas. I though maybe you just meant Thomas sounds more adult than Timmy. Now, in fairness to Timmy/Thomas and perhaps Timothy, should we cap the number of name changes he can have on a daily basis?


Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:25 PM :
In this case, yes, I am talking to you :)



Golly Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:25 PM :
See what you have started Alice? He needs a name, and a manly name at that, today. What will it be? Seems like Bigot never really caught on.


Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:26 PM :
Hmm ... how about Bruce or Julian? Those are some of the most butch names I know :)


Golly Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:29 PM :
Oh man, where is Sky? We need Sky!!



Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:31 PM :
Good question. I haven't seen him round in ages.


Golly Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:43 PM :
Ages, I get it. Okay, no Sky, we are going to have to make a decision for ourselves. I go with "Tim." Is is short, more mature but remindful of all Timmy's funny, but bigoted comments. Done? Tim it is?


Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:48 PM :
Tim is fine by me .. honestly, it's his name and he can do what he like with it. I was just having a bit of fun is all.



Golly Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:54 PM :
You decide. 3T's? MoPo or Tim. The answer is???


TimmyThomasTimothy Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 2:54 PM :
Ok,Ok how about BiGolly, get it? bi being two, and double entedre bi as in you know.


TimmyThomasTimothy Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 3:07 PM :
So Golly, should I stay 'bi'?



Golly Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 3:14 PM :
Up to you. Although cleaver, the "Bi" may end up confusing people.


Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 3:18 PM :
Are you really Bi? Or are you just having a laugh?


BiGolly Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 3:19 PM :
Not Bi alice, Bi as in triple entendre.



Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 3:19 PM :
Fair enough.


Golly Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 3:21 PM :
Pretty sure he is far from Bi.


Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 3:22 PM :
Yeah, I would have been rather surprised if he was.



BiGolly Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 3:27 PM :
What, gays can't be bigots???


Alice Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 3:27 PM :
Of course they can.


PoPo Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 4:20 PM :
You know what BiGollyTimmyThomasTimTimothyGolly.....

You just made me think of a long forgoten political figure. His name, Ross Perrot.

I doubt im spelling it right. And thats fine because I have a reputation to keep up with. But you make me think of his most memorable quote. Can you think of it?

Here is a hint: Your words are low in value.....

Think of it yet? Ok here it is.

He said: "Talk is cheap!" And you sir are full of nothing but hot air. I read your posts, and I think of a 13 year old with no life. Ross Perrot coined the term but you are perfecting it with empty babble. Have nothing better to do than entertain your self with the thought that you are getting to me with your name calling. LOL silly little kid. Soo bored.

Who ever that some one is above. (Probably timmyboy) Cops aka Detectives, Police, Sheriffs, FBI, Investigators, ect. Know alot about "LAW" its their bread and butter. And they would not ask for it (DNA) if it were illegal. And deffinately not with out a Judge signed warrant for its submission. Therefor it seems that you just talk (type) to hear/see your own wrods in print.



Sky Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 4:57 PM :
Sky? Did someone call for Sky? Actually I haven't gone anywhere. I just got tired of arguing with people who don't care to look at things from another perspective. So I haven't been posting.

However, since you asked, here's my take on this. Let's begin by looking at two of the bill of rights:

Amendment IV: "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

For a law enforcement officer to ask you to voluntarily search your place or person doesn't violate this ammendment unless there is coercion, threat or intimidation.

Amendment V: "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself [emphasis mine], nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

Here things get a bit tricky. If an accused is compelled to surrender DNA, it may be agrued that he is being forced to be a witness against himself. There have been conflicting court opinions in regard to this. But if you voluntarily surrender the DNA as evidence, you are essentially waiving your fifth amendment rights.

These are not my opinions, but those of a friend who is a criminal trial attorney, who I asked to take a look at this article. Except is certain cases, such as when a police officer may search anything unlocked in your automobile during a traffic stop (I'll leave it to PoPo, who is better qualified than I to address other such cases), you may always refuse to coorperate witth an investigation in which the police are gathering evidence to be used against you. According to my friend, not only do you not have to coorperate, you must not. You don't resist the police's authority, nor do you hamper their investigation, but you do not cooperate with any evidence gathering against you.

But privacy and and the fourth and fifth amendment issues are not what is striking about this particular case. What strikes me is an almost comical lack of reasoning and logic on the part of the police department investigating this. Unquestionably, the person responsible for this crime is not going to voluntarily come forward and give the police prima facie evidence against him. Moreover, the man who depostied that semen in the woman may not be the murderer her. Certainly getting a match on the DNA, if there is evidence of rape and, when combined with other physical evidence, would give the police a pretty tight case. But, they don't appear to have much to go on. Also, DNA comparsions are very expensive and time-consuming. How many men do they intend to do this on? Hundreds? Thousands? Rather than cooperating with the police on this, the citizens should be demanding that they quit wasting their tax dollars on a wild goose chase. As the article point out, mass DNA sampling never delivers results. It's a waste of time. Given the number of people who visit Cape Cod, there is every likelihood that the assailant was a transient and long gone.


PoPo Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 5:26 PM :
Sky it wasnt property that was in question as for rights, it was blood/DNA.

No its is never advisable to hand over evidence against you. However...

As you said, "Unquestionably, the person responsible for this crime is not going to voluntarily come forward and give the police prima facie evidence against him."

True but it isnt about one lead to one suspect.

In gathering evidence many are excluded as well as narrowed out to be possible suspects. To get an actual DNA positive hit on John Doe doesnt mean that he "killed" the woman he raped or even had sex with. But to find his DNA inside her body at or around time of death makes him a very important witness and or suspect. Lets say they found the owner of the seman. He is a material witness to a crime at the least. But more than likely the prime suspect.

To submit your DNA as evidence isnt seeing the cup half full, its also to see the cup half empty. In your eyes it may be suggesting you did do it. But to the police investigator, its pretty obvious a suspect would not submit his own seman as evidence, they know this. DUHH!! But what the general public wont know is that they already have some people in mind by this time. And to see the people in their list of suspects come forward to help prove or dissprove. The remaining people on that list who did not submit DNA, are then redflagged to be searched for further evidence. Like questioning or finger prints. These are just tools the police use to narrow down a murderer.

And Sky no offence oh great one, but it is very incensitive of you to call this rape/murder investigation a "wild goose chase" with which tax dollors are "wasted" on. I doubt you would be so cold in word usage if it were your daughter or sister.

This collection of DNA is very common in murder cases. There is right now an FBI DNA nationwide Data base collected from prisoners nationwide. (If I remeber right) Like I said above this evidence doesnt just exclude but also includes witnesses or suspects to not just be watched but also questioned for answers that are missing pieces to the puzzle. The article just says hundreds of local men, its not like they are testing the entire state. Also keep in mind that from the DNA found on the nody they know the blood type, and may be just asking for local DNA from men with type A+. But the complaint from the article seems to have an angry tone, even sounding as if a minority group is being singled out. In any case all the evidence gathered does do some good to shed more light on the important issue.

Please look past and excuse the many typos above. If it realy bothers you dial 1800-*#@-*^%$@


Socket7 Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 7:06 PM :
wait po po. My own blood isn't property? My DNA, the very stuff that is the BLUEPRINT for my ENTIRE EXISTANCE is not property? I think that if anything falls under the 5th amendment, DNA or blood would be it. How much more personal can you get then your genes, that are so unique the pattern of them exists nowhere else in the entire universe.

I have a right to privacy too. I don't need a guilty concence to want police not having my DNA. Police are perfectly willing to lie to your face to get you to confess to things. Or charge you with crimes you did not commit. Like a DUI for having beer in your dorm room (happened to a friend of mine.)

I'm sorry but the po po, but as a police officer, you are my enemy, and you will always be my enemy and if you want my DNA you can get it when I cum on your face.

You seem ok as a person though, so don't take that personally. I hate what you do, not who you are. I am also aware that the only cops you ever hear about are the ones who go bad, and that this gives them a bad image. However, I have never had a run in with the police that wasn't detrimental to me, and neither have any of my friends.

I like having what anonymity I do, and I do not want that to go away, especialy just because some retard did something stupid. Remember how much it sucked when that 1 retard in your class in school fucked it up for the rest of the class? This is the equivilant, only MUCH more is at stake.



BiGolly Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 8:36 PM :
PoPo you give me too much credit, I'm a five year old with no wife, I mean life.


PoPo Wrote the following on 01/11/2005 11:06 PM :
Socket7 You realy are 2 demensional you know that? Of course its "yours" but it is far greater than just property, it is YOU. Your blood is you, with out your blood you have no life. What the constatution is running into these days is modern defanition conflicts. Back when it was writen science was not even close to material or important at the time. Property has a very differant definition than your blood. Thats obvious, and I am not infering by any means that is "not property therfor not valuable" I mean its much more than propertyu and falls under a much more criticle standard in court than a ball-bat. Dont think so much dude. Dang!

In a car crash where a person(s) is injured and or killed, blood is always important to take into subjection the blood-alcohol content. There is very strict procedure to obtain this. Its is only usable if obtained with in 2 hours of the accident. Otherwise its aged beyond usage. A court order from a judge is required usualy to the hospital and or doctor treating the drunk driver. But this is blood taken already as needed for normal treatment once arrive at the ER. Hospitals and DOctors have a finely tuned relationship with Law Enforcement with this repect. The patient/suspect is always held in highest reguards for privacy. Look up H.I.P.P.A. laws to see what I mean. And you act like Police are against you. Thats only the fact if you have a guilty conscience. Wether you agree or not.

Police are always hated and rejected every ware by the-->*IGNORANT*<--.

UNTIL THERE IS SOME CREEP KNOCKING DOWN YOUR BACK DOOR YELLING INTENTIONS OF BATTERY. Call us when you need us and treat us like garbage when we do our jobs. Any wonder why so many kill themselves? No of course, you dont, you only care about your self. Right? Socket7 you have an inmature view of a world you have no idea or respect for. Anarcist way. Welcome to russia hah?

You have no clue about your rights or "due process". You people have no clue about what crap police have to take while serving people who spit in their faces. Hate the ones who steal and beat you up while raping your family, not the ones who come running to help. Man where have all the heros gone?

No repect!


Golly Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 09:03 AM :
Sky. You quit posting because people are arguing with you? NO THEY ARE NOT. YOU ARE WRONG. Okay, that was Golly's funny for the day. Welcome back.



Golly Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 09:31 AM :
Oh Boy, I feel a long day coming.


Nony Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 09:59 AM :
Golly Bigolly Gollybolly Tilly Timmy Tim Thomas Timothy Thompkins et al, maybe you should set up a post on the message board for running comments. Makes it much easier for us simple ones to follow the workings of your brains.


Nony Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:09 AM :
So as to PoPo please, write I will with accent the foreign. But remark yours include the missing of the matter grey in bone of head?



Alice Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:11 AM :
Here, have a few laughs!

Rude Food

Might be NSFW


BiGolly Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:15 AM :
Way cool, Alice! hey Nony, send us some 'Big Nuts' wil ya? Or don't you have 'Big Nuts"?


Alice Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:21 AM :
You guys might have seen this one, but it still makes me laugh

Sartre Cookbook



Nony Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:21 AM :
Ve know under name the different. Not the nuts big, here name it is " melkchocolade met hele hazelnoten" or "chocolat au lait avec les noissettes entiere" Spelling garantee I can not. Very good for eating. Reason alone for belgium moving to.


Alice Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:23 AM :
Thats odd .. if you look in the list of comments attached to this story, that link of mine works .. but if you look at it in the last 30 comments it doesn't .. darn

http://pvspade.com/Sartre/cookbook.html


Nony Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:23 AM :
Alice you should submit these for posting on the main list for the edification of the masses! here they will get lost in the clutter!!!



Alice Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:23 AM :
And now it works .. argh

I love chocolate with hazelnuts .. yum.


Alice Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:24 AM :
I would, but I feel like wasting peoples time now .. don't want to have to wait ... I'm so impatient sometimes.


Nony Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:25 AM :
Alice If you PM me your address I will send you some!



Nony Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:27 AM :
You can still submit them for when CW updates!... Know what you mean, was too late this morning with my usual load of timewasters...


Alice Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:30 AM :
Nony, message sent.


Alice Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 10:51 AM :
Hmm, no comment back from Nony. Now that he has my address, he must be flying over here to break into my house :) Must be on the look out for continental man in his 40's with odd accent and 4 cats ...



Golly Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 11:32 AM :
Nony-"Golly Bigolly Gollybolly Tilly Timmy Tim Thomas Timothy Thompkins et al, maybe you should set up a post on the message board for running comments. Makes it much easier for us simple ones to follow the workings of your brains."

Now even though our content may be similar, there is a difference between Golly and the rest your mention. BiGolly tends to be much more bigoted and vocal than Golly but, Golly does tend to enjoy BiGolly's humor.


Golly Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 11:40 AM :
Screw-it, Big Olly, go back to Timmy and follow PoPo around.


Timmy Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 11:41 AM :
Timmy all over that!! poPo where are you???



Sky Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 11:43 AM :
Property? Who said anything about property? The fourth amendments starts with "The right of the people to be secure in their persons..." That's person. Surely you'll agree that your DNA is a part of your person and would be subject to the prohibition against unreasonable search and sierzure. Once again PoPo, you have deliberately misconstrued my comments. The rape/murder investigation isn't a wild goose chase. Wasting months and hundreds of thousands of dollars on mass DNA collection and analysis is, however. It's bad police work. Period.

No I didin't quit posting because they are arguing. I quite because there's no purpose in arguing with some people and I have better things to do with my time.


Timmy Wrote the following on 01/12/2005 11:44 AM :
Sky! How the . are you? But what can you do with a dime nowadays?


PoPo Wrote the following on 01/14/2005 11:42 PM :
Yes Sky much better things, like compliment your self in the mirrow for hours on end?

Sky you amaze me with what you ASSume to know. I agree, I repeat, AGREE, that blood/DNA is --NOT-- just property but a part of ones person/self. Therefor its not easily catagorized like objects on a shelf.

Dang you can be dense for a modern self proclaimed genious!

No one is saying that the Police were being wastful but you, and for what I dont understand. I thought I explained it to you. Your friend a trial lawyer or what?



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