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A long time ago... well, maybe not that long ago, this used to be a site where I would post what I was thinking and I'd get one or two comments a week. This site has become much more popular than I ever thought it would have, not that that's a bad thing! Many people here post their opinions on the topical interest stories. However, I've felt a bit left out. You see I have changed from the being the editorial department to the site maintenance department. It's left me without a place to post what I really feel. I now tend not to post my opinions because I'd rather observe what others post and not influence their opinions just because I own the site. But... This is one fucked up country we are living in. It's so socially and politically divisive that I feel my opinion should have a bit of voice, if not to influence others, than to allow me to let you know how I feel about things that I observe. I think you all know where I stand on most issues, however, due to my lack of posting my opinion, you don't know what I believe.

So to end the silence, I'll start posting my opinion again. I'll try to avoid the common leftist clichés, I don't want to become a NeoCon red state quotation machine.

For now, I'll start with what I believe:

There is no god. The belief of a god is the sign of a weak mind. It's a fallacy to believe in a power that rules your life, I find it somewhat amusing that people believe that their own decisions on right or wrong are judged and governed by a "higher power". I feel that anyone that believes in such a supreme being has a weakness that is solidified by their beliefs. The belief in good and/or evil is false. Morals do not need a god to exist. There is no good, there is no evil; there are people with conflicting (to your own) morals. I can comprehend a moral existence where Hitler's and Charles Manson's moral beliefs were correct. However, it's not here in my life.

I believe that George W. Bush, and the republicans in general are attempting to lead the United States, the people into a moral cage. A situation where we, as "Americans" are expected to accept the moral beliefs of people that we do not agree with.

I do not agree with George W. Bush's morals. As I think most people of this country don't agree. The problem with the last election is not that it displayed a great division in politics. That it did. But it really displayed and as now is being forced, is a division in force of morals. Not what your moral beliefs are, just that the current government wants to FORCE it's morals upon you as an individual. Although some red state folk think this is OK, they miss the loss of freedom that is involved in this gesture of moral fortitude.

I do not want to be told by the government how to think, what is right or wrong. This force of morals is not bordering on a national religion, it IS a national religion. The beliefs of the republican right are seeping their ways into the laws of our country. The GOP realizes that it can control the constitution of the US not only through the use of Supreme Court appointees but also it has realized that in a war year the treaties that the US makes trumps the constitution (look at the DMCA). If you want to be schooled on constitutional law, just ask, I'll school you.

If you don't believe that this country is in a takeover state, think again. The rights of normal U.S. citizens have been subverted to allow the national fear of terror take over and the GOP freedom ring through. Your rights are at stake. Your freedom is replaced slowly, through the false fear of terrorism, with the fascist GWB belief of a false god that believes in only terror and false hopes. 

Disagreeing with the government attitude has somehow been replaced with an "Anti-American" attitude! When did questioning your government become wrong?!! I do NOT have a fucking "support the troops" magnet on my truck, those fucking things are made in Taiwan!. Does this make me less "American?" Probably to you Neo-Conservative folk.

Honestly, I think that anyone that votes republican is a fucking idiot. A stupid, uneducated fuck. Someone who does not value human rights above patriotism, someone who would rather see dissenters die than live. I, as well as most of the left wing (and I am very far from "left" in my political beliefs) look upon the right wing as a bunch of buffoons. A bunch of fucking idiots. However, I never have underestimated the power of fucktards in large groups.

I'm not one to say that you got what you deserve, because I have to live with this idiot along with you. I'd rather say, fuck you assholes.


Leave a Comment


PoPo Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 01:14 AM :
Very interesting. Full of anger, and conviction. Very dry even though it sounds to have flowed from a froathy mouth. LOL

To be convinced that Christianity is wrong and that GOD does not exist is fair and a GOD given right. Thats fine. But just as a Christian is unable to prove that God exists, an Athiest is just as powerless to "prove" his or her idea is truth. So both ideas are simply un-provable. We want to say that science has indeed proven such things as the big bang, and evolution. And thats fine to argue this. However I would like to point out that science is as strong as the ones who teach it and learn it. In other words poeple are not perfect by any means. We make mistakes. And science is not impervious to this truth of falability. Right? Just as doctors can be wrong in a diagnoses, so can scientist and other profetionals be wrong. Its a major part of the learning process. There was a time when all illnesses were treated by placing leaches all over ones body to suck out the "bad blood". Today we have found out that that is not the case. They thought that the plane could never break through the sound barrier, because it would fall to peices. Well they were wrong. They thought all kind of things about space travel, and ended up being wrong. Sometimes partly and sometimes completely. Right? They had facts they used to make thier assumptions before testing thier thoeries out, and found that they had to adjust thier ideas with every leap into the unknown. Bottom line is that what we thought we knew yesterday we found out today is wrong. And what we think we know today will one day be X-out. Now not every single claim will be changed, but alot of major and minor beliefs will be. And who can see what tomorrow has to show?

In truth no - one really knows what happens after we die. Not christians or athiests. So in the end its just a gamble on a bet whos wager is ones soul or self. We can think we are given heaven, but wont find out till its check out time. We can say that death is the end and there remains nothing at all, but how do we really know till its over?

We dont. We just place our bets where we want and "pray" we are right. We trust the person who tought us to love God/hate God was right. Weather that person was one's self, or a mentor.

Good luck every one....


codewolf Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 01:32 AM :
No, you are a fucking idiot. your belief in a god is just mistaken and you, as an intelligent human should question your belief in a "guy in the sky". I find this belief laughable, and somewhat silly. You can stand on your "you can't prove what I imagine" stance, but it is silly and honestly, as far as I am concerned, flawed. Your beliefs are fucking stupid, and silly. Start to take account of your actions and stop believing in a higher power that accepts your mistakes, because, I don't. I do not accept your fuck ups, you are to blame, no one else. Stop using a false flying man as an excuse for your faults.


Nony Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 03:19 AM :
Cool post CW! I was wondering how you could keep so quiet and refrain yourself from commenting. As far as I am concerned, it would have called for something close to inhuman restraint.


Stew Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 07:11 AM :
Well said CW! It's time to bring back the old saying... Better dead then red.


Sky Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 07:59 AM :
An excellent post, CW. I didn't read so much anger as despair over the fact that you, like so many of us, understand that unengaged and unenlightened people are blindly following a group of amoral and increasingly undisguised fascists to the end of the American Democracy.

I don't agree with you about good and evil, nor do I agree with you about morality. There is good and evil in the world. There are moral poeple, there are people with misguided morality and there are amoral people. The thing is, you are a reasonable man. Unlike some of the people who post here, I believe that you and I could sit down over a few beers, discuss these issues calmly and rationally, and even if we come away still disagreeing, we would probably learn something from one another.

For this reason it is important that you post. This is your site and you have a right for it to be a medium for self expression. You should also attempt to influence. We must all attempt to influence those misguided souls who voted for Bush, Inc. so that they will come to understand how they've been deceived and how much it's going to cost them. Remember not everyone who voted for George are like NeoCom and Patriot. Some were genuinely fooled and they need to hear opposing voices.


dano Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 09:13 AM :
you guys are all fucked up, merry xmas eve.


Surfer Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 09:58 AM :
I love you man.

BTW, before I head out of town...(I'm on my way out the door...) I have to disagree with you on one thing on the God issue. Just because you believe there's a God doesn't mean you have to let it control your actions. meh, something to think about.


PoPo Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 11:34 AM :
Being cursed and called a fool is a very tiny price for placing my stake in a claim to something better than what this world offers once Im dead. Its too hopeless to accept that after 85 years of life on earth if Im "lucky" then nothing. I choose my foundation and its my right. I very much do not agree with bible thumping Christians who live to condemn people to hell, and think they are God's gift to the world/ With that said CodeWolf, you wont have to worry when Im ganna start condeming people here to hell, or quoting scripture at all. What I am here for is like the others here, the very cool links, games, video clips, and diverse meterial. In fact. In that little chat collum to the left of the main paige I typed a message a few months ago. I commented that your site "would be perfect if it was not so biassed politicaly. That adding some content from conservative views would improve it." And you did, which makes me want to keep showing up and being apart.

But you know guys its unfair to group all Christians or even Conservatives into a mindless foolish uneducated steriotype. Especialy based on people like NeoCon.

I swear NeoCon I want an answer from you about that Nazi link you submitted. I havent seen you around alot since I asked you to come out and admit wheather you were a racist or not, and Im reading into that. So in your defence please respond soon.

CodeWolf you said you were glad to see so many people coming to your site or at least you were shocked that its popularity grew. You gave the impression that you welcome the "enemy" in order to view the opposing views. If you dont mind me saying. It seemed to me from your response to my opinion, that I get the impression you hate God rather than the way you put it, "I find this belief laughable, and somewhat silly." By the degree of passion towards there being a God, and how angry you sound. So quick to call me names and curse me. It just sounds more like you hate God rather than agree that there is one. I may be wrong in what I observed in that thouugh.

The reason why "I" feel that way is because my little sister died in a car crash 6 months ago. She left four babies behind 8, 6, 2, 1. And my other two younger sisters are now so angry that they have writen off the idea of God and heaven all together. And not to catagorize you with them CW, but you sound like they do when God is mentioned. If you have been hurt , which Im really assuming here, it must have been bad.

But then again I will probably be cursed and called more names for thinking I know anything, by people who claim to be able to have perfectly level fair open discussions without getting mad at each other, "discuss these issues calmly and rationally". Right Sky?

I mean have I ever called any one names here or cursed any one rudely?

Though Neo does temp me....


Patriot Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 1:21 PM :
Codewolf, listen to PoPo. You hate God. You don't hate Bush. You hate Bush because he believes in God. You hate me and other christian conservatives because we pray to God. When have I ever condemned you or any of your readers to hell? You want me to deny my beliefs in order to converse with you and others on this site....to tell you a lie?... that I don't believe in hell or heaven? You want platitudes instead of what I think is the truth?

I hope it's obvious to others that I try to bring a little bit of Him here! Not in scripture, but in philosophy. I challenge you to find a post of mine when I quoted scripture to you or anyone here? It's never happened unless someone asked me for a verse - like Mr. Surfer.....and even then it was only to pacify him, not to indoctorinate him.

You know, you're right - this is your site. You run it. You deal with the crap, you fix it when it doesn't run right, and you know what? You do a damn good job. You have a gift - a talent. Not only have you maintained what you had when I first starting coming here a year ago, but you'v exercised vision. You've grown a message board, and attracted a community of widely diverse personalities and opinions.

But it's like I've told Alice, if you want to draw a line and declare war on God in your life - be my guest. I've wrestled with the Man many a time. I've never won yet. Each time I come away with a new respect and a new understanding of His nature. It's like picking a fist fight with your dad when you where 5 years old. You come away knowing who the boss is.

Yeah I've got "trait deficiencies" as you like to say. I've got news for you - so do you, and so does PoPo and Sky and Alice, and Nony and Casual Observer, and Dano and Stew and everyone else you will ever meet - Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Buddist, New Ager. It doesn't matter. Perfect people don't exist. Don't fool yourself.

But, I'm starting to get the impression that you not only hate God, you hate his followers to the point of extinction and censorship. My personal opinion is that because you know deep in your heart (though you might not admit it) you can't beat God, so why not target his followers. This is Sky's philosophy. This is Alice's philosophy. "I can't beat the Old Man, so I'll pick on His kids."

Join them if you must, but keep in mind, the Good Shepard watches over His flock. (you see Surfer - I am a sheep). If you don't want a christian conservative viewpoint here anymore, just say the word. I'll gladly go somewhere else. Why not put it to a vote?.... that way you can feel good about yourself and your decision and call it democratic!....and point to Sky and Alice, and surfer, when someone asks you whatever happened to the lively debate you used to have on codewolf.com. That way you guys can sit around stroking each other about how intelligent you all are, and because someone else agrees with you all - you must be right!!

Make this place a community of liberal programmers. You'd certainly make it easier on Sky's arthiritis. He wouldn't have to type so much liberal propaganda under cloak of "centerism" in response to conservative opinions. Alice's blood pressure would go down, and surfer could survive on half the prozac he's currently taking, and I'm sure Nony's bar tab could be cut in half.

But before you hang the sign on the door that says "atheist liberals only", let me offer you this:

I don't believe in Santa Claus, but I'm not going to sue somebody for singing a Ho-Ho-Ho song in December! I didn't agree with Darwin, but I'm not going to go out and hire a lawyer to sue my high school teacher. Life, liberty or your pursuit of happiness will not be endangered because someone supports a philosophy or a belief in God! It's not like I'm reading you the book of Acts or passing around the collection plate. Christians are just sick and tired of being silent. This includes me. You don't have to pray, or say the pledge of allegiance or believe in an "Intelligent Designer". That is your right and I'll honor your right. But you're not going to keep "my kind" from voicing our opinion or voting our conscience on election day. You can quell the message (my message) here if you like. It's your site. But like you - I'm a rebel. Christ was a rebel. We won't stop.

Because I respect you, I'll respect your website and your wishes. I'll leave if you ask.

God bless us one and all especially those who are angry at and denounce Him.....and God bless America. Despite her faults, she is still the greatest nation to ever have existed in all of human history.


Stew Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 1:34 PM :
You have it all wrong Patriot. I think what CW is saying is that he hates Bush and he hates you. That goes for you too NeoCon.


codewolf Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 1:54 PM :
Patriot - I never used the word hate. I don't hate you, Bush, or the Neo-Conservatives. I just think that some people hold very foolish and dangerous opinions.

"But, I'm starting to get the impression that you not only hate God, you hate his followers to the point of extinction and censorship."

No, just the opposite - I don't believe in censoring someone's opinion at all! You should know that by now. I may not agree with you, but I'll defend your right to speak your mind here. I think that you provide a opposing viewpoint, although I may be the only person here that sees the value in your contribution to this site.

I was expressing my opinion in this post. It was not a call for opposing viewpoints to go elsewhere. If you'd like to write up a post for the front page, I'll gladly post it.

and PoPo - I apologize for calling you a fucking idiot, I meant that in the nicest of ways :-) , I was in rant mode and should have chosen my words with a bit more care.


Sky Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 2:51 PM :
Hate. the worrd is trumped out in nearly all their posts. Hate, hate, hate. They hate so much, they hate so many, they secretely hate themselves. So they naturally assume that we hate too. They will never admit that hatred is the core value of neoconservatism. Their leaders feed their hatred becuase it gives the leaders power over them. Your God, if he exists in the manner you belive, has no place in his heaven for those who hate. Or did you not listen to what Jesus taught?

There is no one who has ever walked this earth or ever will whom I will hate. I may dislike them, but never hate them. Hatred is self-destructive and no good has ever come from it.


Casual Observer Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 3:43 PM :
Wow Ladies/gentlemen. All very deep and well written.


codewolf Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 4:00 PM :
PoPo -

If you have been hurt , which Im really assuming here, it must have been bad.

Actually, I've had a great life so far. I haven't been influenced by some horrible event. Although you view my opinion as an intolerance of religion or other's beliefs, you are incorrect in your assumption. What angers me about religion is the how religious leaders (like MonkeyBoy, although I believe he is false about his beliefs to capture the Christian right support) attempt to instill their beliefs in my daily life through the use of legislation.

I have nothing against your beliefs, I don't hate god followers, I just don't like being told by organized religion that their beliefs should be instilled into my life. I think it's a grave mistake to link moral thinking with the belief in god. I think I am a correctly moral person, and yet I don't hold a belief in a being that asks me to follow a correct moral path. I'm fine doing that on my own, thank you!


PoPo Wrote the following on 12/24/2004 9:15 PM :
CW

Im sorry...I never meant that you "said" that you hate God/Buch/Christians ect. rather I was suggesting that your fly was down. And your thingy is showing..LOL no realy, You phrase your words so that it is very very very hard to think you dont hate the above mentioned.

Sky man oh man oh man.... LMAO!!

Silly little rabbit....

I wonder how much of the Bible you have read. Its easy for child-less couples to critisize parrents on child raisig. Its easy for aithiests to critisize a book and or its system of concepts when they have never tried it out, or read its pages. So please save your self some embarrassment Sky and dont assume to infer what Chirst taught. You grow less impressive with every comment about "Christ-ianity". LOL

I hate to hate busting your balls on this one bro. But you confuse the usage of the word "hate" in any of these posts. And you can not deny that you all hate bush. You can say that you dont, but its not true. Its ok to admit that, because according to the massive amount of hateful content towards him, it is very obvious he is dissliked and that we all know is putting it very lightly.

And Sky if neoconservatism means nazi skin head racist commy then yes neconservatives are full of hate. But be advised about the Democratic version of our "neocon" problem. You have to admit that you are for all intensive purposes in the left corner and that you have your red headed step children also who are full of hate. Dont think for one minute that hate is exclusively a problem inside the right, and that the left is some how exempt from the extremist force of hate.

In fact I doubt that you can dissagree, and if you do....well it wont suprise me.


Sky Wrote the following on 12/25/2004 08:25 AM :
PoPo, It is not just my opinion that the American neoconservatism is the newest form of fascism. It is the growing consensus of policial science scholars (even conservative ones) from around the world. Why do you think everyone in Europe is so nervous? They've suffered fascism before and they recognize it when they see it. Now they see the most powerful nation the Earth has ever known moving toward it. I do not mean to imply that one must hate if one is a neoconserviative or that only neoconservatives hate. But I will say that all of the neoconservatives I know are consumed by hatred.

Neoconservatism is not an issue of being Democrat or Republican. You make the common mistake of considering only one axis of political theory. What is frightening about neoconservatism isn't so much it's fundamental ideas, which at its base is plain vanilla conservatism. What is frightening about it is it's authoritarianism and tendency toward national socialism. It only takes a few more steps to cross the line into totalitarianism. The reason it is associated with the Republican Party just now is because there is a faction of the party, which had for many years been resisted by mainstream Republicans, which has slowly built a power base. You may not know that in 1964, the Republican leadership literally begged Richard Nixon to come out of retirement (he left politics after loosing to Kennedy) to oppose Barry Goldwater for the Republican nomination. Goldwater, who was one of the early neoconservatives, scared the hell out of the Republicans and they did not what him and his followers to come to power. The Republicans had no real love for Nixon either. They understood that while he probably couldn't defeat Johnson, he could defeat Goldwater and that's what they wanted.

About Christ... Yes, I have read the Bible - several versions of it. I also studied Christianity at Mercer University, a school supported by the Southern Baptist Convention. I spent two years studying there and all students were required to study Christianity for a year. I chose courses in the history of Christianity and in the fundamentals of the Christian faith. There is one thing I can say for Mercer's Christianity Department: they teach all courses from the standpoint of scholarship and leave the faith part to the individual. My point is, I don't infer anything about what Christ taugh; I know what he taught.

You say you are a Christian, so you must know that the apostle Simon was a Zealot. He encouraged Jesus to join the Zealots, since they were opposing the Romans with violence and felt that they had the best chance of driving the Romans from Judea. The Zealots believed that the Messiah would lead the revolt. Jesus refused, since he had come to rid the world of hatred, not participate in it. When Jesus allowed himself to be ridiculed, tortured and crucified, he did so in part to rid the world of hatred by taking Man's hatred onto himself. If you call yourself Christian, you must accept this.

Nearly 2000 years later, another man studied the teachings of Jesus: Mohandas K. Gandhi. From Jesus he learned that evil and injustice could be effectively opposed only through non-violence. Thus his passive resistance movement that ultimately won India its freedom from British rule. A few years later, the Rev. Martin Luther King would adopt Gandhi's method for the civil rights movement. King accomplished more for his people than all the militant civil rights groups combined. He taught us that we cannot win freedom through hatred.

Three great men, all using the same method, changed the world. The sad part is that all three of them were ultimately murdered by people who could not give up their hatred.

Still laughing your ass off, PoPo? Still think me a silly little rabbit?


PoPo Wrote the following on 12/26/2004 7:22 PM :
This last post was mine.Im not sure how my name was lost durring the process, but its my post.


Sky Wrote the following on 12/27/2004 5:44 PM :
PoPo, the point of my last post was to address two core themes in the thread and to do so in such a way as to would engage you in a rational dialogue. There was nothing offensive in it and every word of it is the truth - not just some crap I made up. If you disagree with me about what I wrote about Jesus, I suggest you go talk to your minister. You seem to read very selectively and ignore that which you do not care to understand. Or maybe you just didn't read it carefully (it happens). I wrote "When Jesus allowed himself to be ridiculed, tortured and crucified, he did so in part to rid the world of hatred by taking Man's hatred onto himself." Note the prepositional phrase "in part." This was deliberate, since I did not want to imply that this was Jesus' only motivation. We all know that there were others.

My curriculum vita (not a resume, which is a work history) is what it is and is not for you to question. I have the diplomas hanging on the wall next to me, so I know they are real. That you find it laughable is of no importance to me or this discussion. But to answer your question, I have not read some of the more esoteric books of the Old Testament, but I have read all of the New Testament, including a few you've probably never heard of if all you've ever used is the KJV.

You say I like to argue, which is untrue. I do like a good debate, but that requires that those participating have a basic understanding of the issues being debated. I tried to give you some history, since it's apparent you don't have the background. I do, and offered you what I know. My hope was that perhaps you would understand some the philosophy that forms the basis for my opinions. You attacked me. You say I'm chasing rabbits. I'm not. The truth is, you simply don't understand. What upsets me about you isn't that you can't understand, but rather that you seem to refuse to understand anything that runs contrary to your limited knowledge. You are an ideologue with out much knowledge of your own ideology.

I have written before that I think you are a man of good conscience. I do believe this is true. I also can see by the things you write that you are indoctrinated rather than educated. This is never a good thing, PoPo, and it's so easily remedied. I don't ask, as others will, that you accept what I write as the gospel, but rather that you educate yourself. I gaurantee you that if you do, you will begin to question many things that you now accept as truth. I don't see you as one of these new goose-stepping, neo-Nazi neocons, who live and breath their agenda of hatred, but I do see that you've fallen into their trap. There's nothing in the world wrong with being conservative. Indeed, on some issues, I am myself considered very conservative. Balance is acheived when liberals and conservatives listen to one another, refuse to lock into their separate ideologies, and find common ground. This is the spirit off American pluralism. Unfortunately, there are new voices in America who demand that we give it up. We must refuse, even if we argue and make one another angry from time to time.

So, peace, bother.

BTW, I don't remember in which post it was, but you wrote something that I wanted to ask you about. You wrote that you had to work the ER on Christmas day and would do so for some nine bucks and change per hour. Please tell me that you were moonlighting, doing security at the hospital, and not on duty as a uniformed officer for your force. If the latter is true, that is a criminally low rate of pay for a law enforcement officer.


Surfer Wrote the following on 12/27/2004 8:27 PM :
My borther only made barely above minimum wage working as an officer in W.Va. Be nice to the police, they don't really make enough money doing what they do.


Juniper Wrote the following on 12/28/2004 03:52 AM :
Be nice to the police, they don\'t really make enough money doing what they do.

An outright shame!


PoPo Wrote the following on 12/28/2004 12:26 AM :
Sky in your world all your words will always be truth. Thats the liberal way. Never wrong.

Leftwing liberals = Never ever say your sorry cause youve never done or said anything wrong, then to sound different and pleasing, call your self a conservative liberal or something new when libs loose popularity.

And you can argue that you cant split the country into two parties all you want but the way its going its never going to be any differant. I wish Nader had a chance but he doesnt.

No my man I live in probably the most backword state of the country. Very red but so old styled. Just a matter of 7 years or so ago, the state finaly did away with a super old law legalising slavery, and killed it after so many ugly years. Was of course the last state to kill it on paper. The state of Mississippi isnt a place to get rich by no means, because the same few people are doing that now ad wont share basicly. Alot of industry but so few at the bottom get payed much comparing to the rest of the country.

My father came from Yugoslavia. The word slave comes originates from the word "slav" wich is a short for slavic. I.E. Slovenia, Checkoslovakia, Yugoslavia, Russia, Poland, and many others are all Slavic nations. The slavic heritage is full of slavery. Although slavery is as old as the hills, the word slave some from the word slav, because back when the slavic people were severely abused in Europe, they became known for the slavery they were in. So my family leaving the comunist grip of the old way left the former Yugo to America where they could worship as they wish. And today the hate of Christianity is begaining to make them see that they cant run from it.


Alice Wrote the following on 12/28/2004 12:54 AM :
A quote from PoPo: "And today the hate of Christianity is begaining to make them see that they cant run from it."

Most folks do not hate christianity. What they hate is those who would presume to govern according to their religion. I imagine you would be none to happy if, for example, a court judge decided to keep a copy of the Koran displayed prominently on his bench. I would think that would bother you quite a bit. That's kinda what it's like for the rest of us in this country that aren't religious.


Sky Wrote the following on 12/28/2004 4:15 PM :
PoPo, you haven't been paying attention. I am not a liberal; I'm a moderate. It's just that you, like so many others, have moved so far to the right, you see EVRYONE who doesn't fall into line with you as liberal. You conservatives use the word liberal in the perjorative, like being liberal is a bad thing. Well, it isn't bad, just as being conservative isn't bad as long as you don't move to the extreme end. I am the first to agree that the liberals who came to power in the 1960s got carried away, and did indeed create something of a welfare state with all it's attendant touchy-feely rubbish. They have to take responsibility for the fact that they went a bit too far. But they never even came close to Communism, regardless what the conservatives would have us believe. You won't agree with this, but it is the truth: everything good you can think about that our government does for the people is the product of liberal thought. Most of it is not that expensive either.

While I was no big fan of Ronald Reagan, I considered the Reagan Revolution to be the wake up call for the Democratic Party; in many ways good for the country. The Demos had moved a bit to far to the left and the country reacted. Now the Republican Party has moved too far to the right. They are indeed getting very close to fascism. They most assuredly have created a corporate welfare state. The big corporations are getting trillions in tax incentives, for which they don't have to do a thing. And just like the Democrats, the Republicans have their own pork barrel pet projects and programs.

If the Repos do not moderate quite a bit, they may loose the Senate in the next election and if the Demos can get their collective heads out of their asses and offer an electable candidate, they will take the Whitehouse in 2008. The people of the US are not as on-board with the Republican agenda as they believe. All it's going to take is for them to turn on the Republicans is for them to begin to suffer as a result of their policies. Economists see this coming and many predict that in two years at the outside, the US economy is going to take a nose dive that will make the bad old 1980s look like a minor readjustment. Imagine what all those folks who're sitting on adjustible rates mortgages (on too much house), mountains of credit card debt and driving way more automobile than they could ever need - the ones who are just holding their own now - are going to do when their interest rates fly up, inflation goes back up to double digits, and the unemployment rate sores again. It's going to happen and it's going be uuuuugly. And it will be George W. Bush's fault, since it is his cut tax and spend, spend, spend policies that have put us in this position.

Do you understand my politics a bit better? I believe that we need the liberals desire to make government serve the people and make their lives better just as much as we need the conservatives "hold on there cowboy - how are you going to pay for that" sensibility. Together, they can get alot done, but only if both sides start moving back to the center.

You know, I lived in Mississippi for three years as a kid. My father was station at Columbus.


PoPo Wrote the following on 12/29/2004 5:26 PM :
Sky I know a Sheriff. A Democrat in his late 50's who is a Christian and holds more morals in his left toe than you can even think about "saying" you have. And he would tell you that your full of horse chocolate for claiming to not be a liberal. He is able to say that he is not liberal and still be a democrat, you are not so easily convincing.

What ever the "popular new term" thats used for the "anti-christian, left wing minded, blue-staters" are calling themselves these days, thats you, and its not easy to hide at all.

Also I already know which Democrats I am going to vote for if they run. But out of the best Democrats I still would vote for Conda Rice, or Collon Powel first.

You act like its the democrats who want to lessen Government but its to clear they are visa versa.

Yes Columbus actualy has an Air Force Base there. Wow some truth comming from Sky. Ill celebrate.


Sky Wrote the following on 12/29/2004 5:55 PM :
Sigh..... PoPo, I tried. But you just won't have peace. I've offered you th olive branch now twice and you've slapped me with it both times. Yet you call yourself a Christian? Astounding. And you refuse to understand. You refuse to even attempt an accomodation. So be it. Yet you have the gall to criticize me? Until you know me, don't question my morality. It goes far beyond anything you could even guess at.

Believe of me what you will. It makes no difference to me. I am not any of the things of which you accuse me and I never lie. But you wouldn't know. I am an independant moderate and nothing you can say will change that fact. You only proved with your own words that what I wrote is true: you are indoctrinated. You are locked into a very few narrow-minded prejudices and refuse to even try to look beyond them. It's a shame, too. You have stated that MS is the most backward state in the Union. Have you not stopped to consider that you are a product of that environment and that perhaps there are other ways to look at the world; larger realities to come to know?

'"popular new term" thats used for the "anti-christian, left wing minded, blue-staters" are calling themselves these days"'

We call ourselves educated. BTW, sir, I don't live in a blue state. I live in Georgia. My family is from Georgia. I was born here. Except for the travelling I did early on when my father was being transferred all over the place, I spent most of my life here. Some of the best minds this nation has ever known are from what the politicos are now calling the "red states." Personally, I think all this red state/blue state suff is absurd.


Patriot Wrote the following on 12/29/2004 6:35 PM :
PoPo - I'm telling you man - arguing with Mr. Resume here is like pushing a car with a rope. This is *classic* Sky - talk like a liberal, christian hating peacenik, and then put on the cloak of "moderate". You see, Sky doesn't defend an opinion - he defends an ego. He worship's his own intellect. So, to admit wrongdoing or wrong thinking would require him to admit there might be something wrong with his understanding - his intellect - which is his god. It's a foregone impossiblity. PoPo it's obvious you post to learn and grow. He posts to fill his ego.

There are some good ones here:

"Have you not stopped to consider that you are a product of that environment and that perhaps there are other ways to look at the world; larger realities to come to know?" - This is how he most likely denegrates his employees and kids too. Not up front insults, but packaged in intellectual non-sense. You see, Mr. Sky would like you to believe that he is neither a product of nature or nuture, he is a free thinker! a self made man!.....and answers to no-one except himself, so his "enviornment" doesn't have any influence on him what-so-ever.....this of course is a lie. When one comes to realize the influence their enviornment has on them, they can choose the degree of the impact, but to deny the impact is a lie he likes to tell himself, so he can feel "superior" to you.

"I never lie". Really? Should we believe he's humble too?

The sad part is, he's intelligent, but doesn't believe his intelligence is a gift from the Almighty. It's his. Don't mess with it. Don't challenge it. If you disagree with him - the problem is yours.

Don't you get it PoPo? You and I are "indoctorinated" - he's educated. Anyone who believes in the Creator of the Universe, is indoctorinated - it doesn't matter what you write, or how much reason or sense you make - the litmus test is in "who you are" for Sky, not what you say or your reasons for your opinion. This mentality is not uncommon, but is incredibly absurd. Think about it - would you judge how your meal tastes after you know the charachter of the chef? Would you judge the cleanliness of your clothes after knowledge of your cleaner's sexual orientation? Of course not! But Mr. Sky here doesn't care what you write - just about what you believe. That is all his radar is tuned to. As soon as he knows enough about your political or religious orientation to pigeon hole you into one of his "categories", the chance for intelligent conversation with the man is out the window and down the street.

Good luck!


PoPo Wrote the following on 12/29/2004 11:48 PM :
Dont look at me about the "bluestate/Redstate" business, I did not start it. LOL

And you never lie hah? You must need to put on alot of cologne, cause I bet you stink something wicked from all that crap.... LOL

Thats so funny to hear you say you never lie. Yes Patriot you are right. I know better, but I am not attempting to argue with the man. I am doing what in Police work is called, "challenging". Its more or less innocent attempts at making small talk but also aquiring knowledge of the persons and their story.

Yes Sky I do have the "...gall to criticize..." you. And?? Your point? I get my fair share here, take it like a man. I am proud to be put into your little box [ locked into a very few narrow-minded prejudices and refuse to even try to look beyond them ] Yeah!! Can you believe I have conviction and stand on what I believe and was taught way up in NJ where I grew up and lived the majority of my life, and not in Mississippi? Wow what a chocker that I have some sharp and simple guidelines that I use to be a better person to those around me. Rather than point my finger at others for their intollerance, I put my own few doctrines to work. I live my "very few narrow-minded prejudices" and know better than to kick a person when they are down, but rather help tham. I dont call a person a fool for asking me directions, and say mean things to them about their education, or mine. I help them buy giving them direction and belittle their mistake and make them feel better, not worse. You can call me what you will Sky. I know how you would talk if Neo said that all muslims are indoctrinated, and he was educated, so what makes you differant? This soap box is a real tragedy to the mission of enlightenment to began with. What good does your supposed knowledge do you when all you can talk about is framed certs on your wall next to you. I wonder if Mother Terresa had an office with diplomas and was put down and called "indoctrinated"? You sir are the one putting people in small little boxes thinking that your knowledge has earned you some gifted ability to speak no lies.

Yes I can accept your "peace olive branch thingy" and still call you on your own inconsistancies. You use terms extremely loosely and its a shame cause your spell check could be put to better use. I dont buy all the things you say and I take the liberty to tell you so. SO what? Be a big boy and continue a mature conversation, and dont be so hurt, or think I did not accept your peace flower...LOL

I commend Alice for her picture she has next to her posts. She obviously has less to hide than most here. She is more trusting. No I dont speak so merely over her picture. I have more observations to go into that consideration.

You wanna talk about my world influencing my thought????

My department manager is athiest. He is as redneck as they come. Loves hunting duck. His boss, our department director is a black christian man who voted for kerry. We are a tight knit group. How do you suppose to make your next judgement of my influences now Sky? How about, non of that matters? I make my own choices. Like you.

Yes I have stopped to consider what I am a product of. Its not MS, its my parents. I have lived the majority of my life in New England states there Mr. ASSumptions. I am currently looking for work in other states.

What do you mean, "We call ourselves educated."? I thought you were "...an independant moderate ..."? Now you are defending yourself along with others? What group? You only hurt your point the more you type. But I dare not think you to admit so. No way!

Sky you are every kid in school that bullied others who were slow or younger. You are the one who always had a better story when some one spoke of anything amazing or dreadful. You always come up with some thing more grand. In fact folks we may be in the presence of the great "flip-flopper" himself. Yes!! None other than MR Kerry himself. Come on and admit it Sky. Thats why you wont tell us where you work, right. Cause you are home at the Catsup mansion, when your peers are at work voting on laws or bills like they should be.

Sky you realy should be careful about parading the intellegence factor of who voted for who or how it plays into who you think is write or wrong. That raod is not going to take you to the soap-box gold medal.The greater majority of murderers and rapists who made any kind of name for them selves where extremely brilliant. What point would you try to argue about the brain bit then?Were they all Dems? Did they vote for Kerry? Are they Blue staters?

Does it matter in that case Sky? I doubt it. Just like when a Dem "Fs" up in politics the story is dropped after the first printing, but as soon as R.Limbaugh goes into rehab it tops out world news for weeks, and is center of many long drawn out spots on the media.... Double standard again. You cant argue a point very well simply with perfect grammer or 6+ years of academics nicely framed in every room. Thats why the poor speaker from Texas got the seat. We wanted a man of conviction, not a man of elliquence. Whoa, what a major sacrifice!! Who cares if he looks like a monkey. I have heard people say the same ignorant things about black peoples facial features, and its rather inmature as it is also harmless. And yes I'm sure I spelled that word "elliquence" wrong Alice, drink another brandi. It will bother you less.

Sky I realy am confused why you think so much of your self to think you needed to extend somekind of peace token towards me. None is needed because we are not at war. You may have your conflicts, but I am not a participant.

You know its a problem personaly for me to point my finger at others for what ever reason. Because I usualy am embarrassed later to be found guilty of the same flaw. So I learn to be less critical of peoples faults.

You are guilty of the things you accuse others of. Its called humanity. We all have the same potential to lie as the next guy. Even you Sky.

I can admit to making a mistake Sky. Its a free-maker. Makes one feel released from the worry of it all together. I could care less what I messed up on, cause I am bigger than my mistakes. I learn from them. Yes that does indicate I am still learning, and that I need to educate myself more. Unlike you however, have no need to learn so you must be differant. I am not just talking about fundamentals Sky. Im talking about a deaper principle.

Yep Sky I am taking this and running with it. You asked for it. You wanna act like there are several of the left wing types and extremist, and so with republicans, and many other completely diff political parties. But in truth there are merely deeper and lesser digrees of the two sides. No matter what kinda hair cut you give the flock of sheep, thay are still the same breed, and still sound the same. I am a conservative. I am with the founding fathers {minus their slaves}, and all they established. And there are many under the same tag of "Conservative", that think the same way except they are for the slavery and shooting abortion doctors. We are both Conservatives but one has a much greater flaw, in both our eyes. Its perception, and definitions. I call the same thing you see by the same word but define it another way.

Patriot I dont see myself as arguing with him. I see it as entertaining myself with his responces. LOL Its not credible how and what he says... He can be drawn away from his thirst to argue. Take out the brain factor and he has nothing to talk about. If he wants to build a sand castle out of his so called brilliance, let him. The tide of his own mouth and imperfection will soon wash away his perfect image of self proclaimed "genius".


Sky Wrote the following on 12/30/2004 07:36 AM :
PoPo, I didn't read beyond the first couple of sentences of your pathetic rant. You are exactly what you accuse me of being: someone who wants to argue just for the sake of arguing. This is called projection. The difference is, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You are just like Patriot ane NeoCon, only worse, because you try to sugarcoat your absurd divel. At least they are upfront and honest about their points of view.

I have noticed that several others here beside me have tried to engage you constructively, but you ignore them. Even when someone agrees with you, you find a way to attack them. You never answer anyone's points with a reasoned and knowledgeable response, you only attack their person. This is because you are ill-equiped to do anything other than this. You have never once countered anything I have written with facts or a reasonable counter-argument. Rather you always come back with some absurd rant about what a liar I am. You make yourself look ridiculous, because my comments are made from knowledge.

If anyone posting to this site is a liar, it is you. You spew constantly about what a good Christian you are, yet everything you write here is antithetical to Christian values. You are consumed by hatred and you don't even see it. You are a very bad Christian and it is an affront to real Christians that you count yourself among them. Great, whatever, have it your way. Just as with Patriot, I will no longer even try to engage you. I'll just skip over your posts. Don't bother responding, because I won't read it.


PoPo Wrote the following on 01/03/2005 10:14 AM :
Ahhhh! But I thought that a persons comments are discounted if they dont read all of the text that they are commenting on!!! I guess not in your case since you are so very intillectual and need not adhear to any of the same measurements that you place on others. So double standard I guess. Then that means your comments about my pathetic rant are null and void of any point.

How can a comment be made from knowledge only coming from you, and no one else Sky? Wait that was retoricle, I'll do the honors of answering that one.

Its because only your points or those which agree with your points count as being, "comments made from knoweldge". How old are you Sky? Is there an answer you can give plainly with out hiding behind a false internet face you have made up for your self??? I doubt very seriously that you are even 30. Oh but wait I forgot this is about me and my lies right? How I evade all questions right? Well Sky since no one has a solid point to make other than you, and your side kicks, I guess my words dont even matter, so why bother engage in your tests of carracter you keep trying to put people under. I dont answer to you Sky. I dont have to appease you in any fashion. I dont care if you get upset at me becasue Im not nice to you even when you, "tried to engage ... constructively". I dont have to respond in any way. You are not important to me. Im sorry Sky but you are not my type. Maybe Junipers, but I dont care what you expect of me. You care care of how I see you do you?

And you can not find any where in any of my posts where I even so much as hint that Im a good Christian, so you are the one rambling about what you see and not what is actualy there. I never said any thing like "...what a good Christian, I am." Thats your conscience talking through the rum again sugar daddy!! Go back to work if you are so important to the world in that superior job and world you have crated.

Again I remind you to not place you very differant people in to the same catagory. I am not the one who avoids questions. NeoCon may be ashamed of his racial hate to the point of hiding from the qquestion I keep asking, but I and he are nothing alike. Sober up then take another look there.

Patriot I think I figured something out. We are dealing with "kerry's kids here". LOL


Alice Wrote the following on 01/03/2005 10:26 AM :
Quote from PoPo: "I commend Alice for her picture she has next to her posts. She obviously has less to hide than most here. She is more trusting. No I dont speak so merely over her picture. I have more observations to go into that consideration."

I'm certainly not more trusting, but I do like to be honest and upfront with who and what I am. I figured that if I show people who I am, they could get a fuller picture of me when I write. Also, I have no fear of showing my life to people. I find that a lot of people here (and most everywhere else on the net) are scared to show people who they are. That's a shame. I mean, you can't all be that ugly, right? My assumption is that most folks aren't who they say they are, and they can keep up that front as long as they don't post a picture. I think that's a shame. Or, perhaps some have real security fears. I'm not sure what to say about that. I realise that not everyone you meet on the net is a nice person, but if I let myself worry about that, I'd never get anything done.


PoPo Wrote the following on 01/07/2005 10:38 AM :
Well said Alice. Thanks...


Alice Wrote the following on 01/07/2005 11:16 AM :
Thanks PoPo.


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